Reply With QuoteThe blog Out of Touch has always done a great job summing up Canadian content in MLS. Here's his spreadsheet for 2012. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kE&output=html
Amount of minutes accrued by Canadian players
Not looking to start a debate here, more of a contest. I am aware players can only get the minutes they earn or deserve. So whether it's the fault of Canada for not having good enough soccer players or the teams for not giving the players enough chances can be debated here a little but don't totally derail the thread with it please.
The idea is that the Vancouver Whitecaps didn't play players from their own nation. So the goal will be to find another club, worldwide, that has played players of their own nationality LESS than Vancouver Whitecaps.
HUGE HINT: A team that is actually in Wales, but playing in an English league WOULD count, since Vancouver is technically playing in a league not based in it's own country. Similarly, say a Macedonian club playing in a Greek league, etc. (Other hint...Swansea has like, ALL the good players from Wales, look in lower division to find a team that doesn't play a lot of national players)
I remember when we last discussed this, that players pointed to Manchester United as a team that buys players from other countries to have more success in it's own league, so I will try to include their last season too.
The criteria is it has to be in REGULAR SEASON PLAY! Not FA cup, or Voyageurs Cup, or anything where a team would look at it's reserve players. First squad matches only, so we'll use only regular season. Sadly, that means any playoffs will be excluded, but that's how it'll have to be.
Here's how our Canadian teams did (stats courtesy of MLSsoccer.com EDIT! CHANGED TO SOCCERWAY.COM)
Toronto FC
Ashtone Morgan - 2525 minutes, 30 appearances
Terry Dunfield - 2499 minutes , 30 appearances.
Doneil Henry - 1139 minutes, 18 appearances
Julian de Guzman - 1024 minutes, 16 appearances
Adrian Cann - 735 minutes, 10 appearances
Matt Stinson - 88 minutes, 4 appearances
Keith Makubuya - 10 minutes, 1 appearance
TOTAL 8020 minutes, 109 appearances
Montreal Impact
Patrice Bernier - 2195 minutes, 27 appearances
Karl Ouimette - 66 minutes, 2 appearances
Greg Sutton - 24 minutes, 1 appearance
TOTAL 2285 minutes, 30 appearances
Vancouver Whitecaps
Russel Teibert - 116 minutes - 4 appearances
Caleb Clarke - 15 minutes - 2 appearance
TOTAL 131 minutes - 6 appearances
(Thanks Lord Bob, using regular season criteria I did not find Caleb Clarke as making any appearances,so I went to soccerway...and edited this using soccerway's stats, rather than MLS.com...double checking on TFC and Impact now as well)
By the way, since Manchester United was brought up by my than one person as a team that also brings in a lot of international players in favor of English ones, here's how they fared just for comparison.
Manchester United 2011-2012, using ONLY Premier League minutes, courtesy of soccerway
Wayne Rooney - 2838 minutes, 34 appearances
Rio Ferdinand - 2565 minutes, 30 appearances
Michael Carrick - 2514 minutes, 30 appearances
Jonathan Evans - 2428 minutes, 25 appearances
Phil Jones - 2126 minutes, 29 appearances
Danny Welbeck - 2017 minutes, 30 appearances
Ashley Young - 1573 minutes, 25 appearances
Chris Smalling - 1291 minutes, 19 appearances
Paul Scholes - 1167 minutes, 17 appearances
Tom Cleverly - 433 minutes, 10 appearances
Ben Amos - 90 minutes, 1 appearance
Michael Own - 79 minutes, 1 appearance
Ezekial Fryers - 67 minutes, 2 appearances
William Keane - 5 minutes, 1 appearance
I'd total it up, but I mean, you get the idea.
Last edited by madmonte; 01-03-2013 at 01:53 PM.
The blog Out of Touch has always done a great job summing up Canadian content in MLS. Here's his spreadsheet for 2012. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kE&output=html
Not every day is Christmas.
Originally Posted by Lord Bob
Sweet thanks...the numbers I have mostly match up, so I'll leave them, but yeah, THAT woulda saved me time lol!
Anyway, to actually answer your question:
AS Monaco, Ligue 2, France. 0 Monagesque players, 0 minutes.
Not every day is Christmas.
Wow, nice find! Let's note here that the Monaco is ranked 217 by ELO, and is not considered a member of UEFA (and therefore FIFA). Therefore, any players born in Monaco wanting (and with the gift to) play internationally in FIFA football would end up playing for France, anyways, but still technically correct Bob!
Given that the population of Monaco is like, less than 50,000 people, can anyone find a club more significant, with locally national players receiving very few minutes that may be comparable? (just to keep the game going a bit)
lol, Monaco... it's like the odd-ball statistical outlier in every sample regardless of what you're talking about.
Last edited by ag futbol; 01-03-2013 at 06:55 PM.
Inter Milan?
By the way you left Rochat off the list. He qualifies as Canadian by citizenship and CSA/MLS rules so unless you are arbitrarily deciding to only count MNT eligible players he should be listed. I didn't see MNT eligible only in your criteria. Rochat = 2323 minutes in 2012.
Interesting that the 2 clubs with the best results in MLS for 2012 have about the same minutes for Canadians if you add Rochat to the Caps list. So they each only found 1 available Canadian player who could make it at MLS level in their coachs' opinion. To be honest I look at the TFC players and have a hard time thinking of any of those cracking the Impact or Caps lineup.
I'm not saying that there are not Canadians out there I wouldn't love to have on the Caps but I don't see the point of playing players who are not ready or who are too good for MLS. As much as I'd love to see Hutch in a Caps uniform I'd rather he make a ton of money in Europe first. It's better for him.
Inter would have had more Italian minutes than the Whitecaps had Canadian minutes through Ranocchia and Cassano alone, although they are a good example of a major team that certainly doesn't prioritize domestic talent.
Not every day is Christmas.
Those are all fair points. And yeah, honestly, I was sort of arbitrarily deciding that Rochat was not Canadian, and was Swiss, despite the CSA/MLS rules, I do honestly view him as Swiss, not Canadian. As for the rest, as I said, I'm just taking note of this from an "interest" perspective, and I will probably continue to do this in future years to see if our youth programs are working and these numbers grow. Could make a chart in the future too, but for now, even though I do have opinions on this, they are irrelevant, just pointing out facts, and you guys can make of it what you will.
But I should point out that the Lord Bob blogger also did not view Rochat as Canadian. Despite the CSA/MLS rules, it is MNT eligibility I'm sort of looking for here.
Yeah definitely. Their focus is certainly, like Vancouver, more on winning than national player development. Not saying there's anything wrong with it. Another I was looking at closely that I was referring to in my hints was Cardiff City FC, based in Wales although they play in the Championship. I believe last year only played one Welsh guy for 700 some minutes.
MNT is your criteria then but it is a poor one. I guess if the Caps sign Lensky he isn't Canadian either then. And neither would Tam be if he came back. But playing players who will never be good enough for the MNT does count. I fail to see the logic in it.
I still find it interesting that these threads lament the lack of playing time at a time when clubs are struggling to find quality, affordable players period much less an even more refined search for quality, affordable, Canadian players. Our MLS teams are stuck in a hard position in that the very good go to Europe, those that can even have a shot at going to Europe do so and that leaves them developing their own which is a very slow process or playing players way before they are ready all within a low salary cap.
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