BBC Panorama. EURO 2012. Must watch.

[Grizzly]

The rise of neo-nazism in Europe is most
pronounced in the east.

That depends on how you define the rise of neo-Nazism. Are there more neo-Nazi skinhead hooligans in the east? Yes. Where are there more openly racist far-right parties sitting in parliament and getting significant voting percentages? That is in western Europe.

[alberta white]

That depends on how you define the rise of neo-Nazism. Are there more neo-Nazi skinhead hooligans in the east? Yes. Where are there more openly racist far-right parties sitting in parliament and getting significant voting percentages? That is in western Europe.

Thats a excellent point Grizzly. The Dutch had a major problem a few years back (maybe still do?) but the Far right has now put a suit and tie on and sit in parliament.

hectorj.

I thank you for bringing a personal account to this thread.

[hectorj]

Alberta, thanks.

Grizzly, the fact the far right has made gains in Holland and other European countries is true. The interesting thing to me is that non-white
immigration has taken place in Holland for over 40 years. More Surinamese live in Holland than Suriname. I believe the recent gains by
the far right are for cultural reasons more than racial ones. From the sounds of it, they fear radical Islam. A great book that deals with the issue is called Murder in Amsterdam: Liberal Europe, Islam and the Limits of Tolerance.

[DavydMT]

Alberta, thanks.

Grizzly, the fact the far right has made gains in Holland and other European countries is true. The interesting thing to me is that non-white
immigration has taken place in Holland for over 40 years. More Surinamese live in Holland than Suriname. I believe the recent gains by
the far right are for cultural reasons more than racial ones. From the sounds of it, they fear radical Islam. A great book that deals with the issue is called Murder in Amsterdam: Liberal Europe, Islam and the Limits of Tolerance.

interesting discussion.
most of race or discrimination issues are driven by economics and have very little to do with anything else. combine high unemployment rate and failing social assistance system with information/history that is being twisted by far right movement or any other interested movement and you have young man who are ready to cause some trouble. if you have proper social assistance system in place, good education system in place and access to jobs, you have no issues with race or discrimination issues.

BBC Panorama peace is very lazy journalism, that fails to address or present real issues

Below are two docs done by Dynamo and Polish Ultras that will give you a better idea what supporters in Poland Ukraine have been dealing with and what is the situation on the ground.

[Grizzly]

Alberta, thanks.

Grizzly, the fact the far right has made gains in Holland and other European countries is true. The interesting thing to me is that non-white
immigration has taken place in Holland for over 40 years. More Surinamese live in Holland than Suriname. I believe the recent gains by
the far right are for cultural reasons more than racial ones. From the sounds of it, they fear radical Islam. A great book that deals with the issue is called Murder in Amsterdam: Liberal Europe, Islam and the Limits of Tolerance.

It sounds like you are making excuses for intolerance in western Europe. Suriname is not a very good example at all. Even if we ignore Hollands shameful history as colonial power in this country, when it won its independence Holland allowed citizens there to emigrate and over 200 000 did at this time which is why they have a large population in Holland today (so nice of Holland to let their former slaves and the slave owners as well to immigrate). Considering that Suriname's present population is only slightly over 500 000 the fact that more Surinamese live in Holland than in Suriname is not that impressive. Furthermore, most of Suriname's white population left at that time and are included in these numbers as well. And those who were not white were mostly well-educated professionals who were educated in both the Dutch language and culture something which holds true with more recent Surinamese immigrants as well. Lawyers and doctors who are fluent in your language and grew up in a similar culture are not exactly hard to integrate.

I would agree that intolerance arises not only for racial reason but cultural and economic ones as well but that does not make it any more justifiable. The racism in eastern Europe is definitely bad but to say it is worse than in the west is absolutely false. It may be more dangerous in a walking down the street late at night manner but it is not as dangerous in a political sense as it is in the west. The majority of neo-Nazi racist hooligans in the East will change as they get older, the economy of their country's gets better and they/their country's have more contact with the world. Significant portions of educated middle class populations in wealthy western European countries voting for far right parties is a lot more worrying. And a lot of the current problem stems from the history of immigrants who were brought to western Europe mostly as a form of slave labour, ie. to clean the toilets but not to integrate into society. They were supposed to be guest workers and go back after a few years but in a few years time there were still toilets to be cleaned so they stayed. Now those countries are paying the price for not integrating these people and blaming them for the problem.

[alberta white]

And a lot of the current problem stems from the history of immigrants who were brought to western Europe mostly as a form of slave labour, ie. to clean the toilets but not to integrate into society. They were supposed to be guest workers and go back after a few years but in a few years time there were still toilets to be cleaned so they stayed. Now those countries are paying the price for not integrating these people and blaming them for the problem.

Well said sir!

[beachesl]

Anybody who has read this forum or predecessors over the past decade or more knows I am far from a Britophile, but, as a small example of
how much the balance and fairness of mothercorp is in the scheme of things, this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18493008

Of course, the hatrz will point to this as just another example of self-aggranezzzament.

[Grizzly]

With the exception of a few minor incidents, the Euro came off without many problems. And for all the talk of racism in Poland and Ukraine, racist and fascist flags were displayed during gatherings to watch the game and celebrations in both Spain and Italy.

Barcelona Plaza d'Espana:



Rome Circus Maximus

[DavydMT]

it only took Ukraine two days to be back in the news after euro final, http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...n-language-law

with both seasons starting soon and many leaders of the ultras in both Poland and Ukraine arrested during the euro i unanticipated we will hear more about Poland and Ukraine this year.

[Cheeta]

With the exception of a few minor incidents, the Euro came off without many problems.

....

Rome Circus Maximus

Have to agree with the 1st bit. While I'm sure a lot of stuff got smothered by the local law and by UEFA suits that's par for the course at these sort of events no matter where they happen in the world. Not criticizing, just saying "Good job". Keeping the heat on the usual suspects isn't a bad policy, nor is it a bad policy to try to deny them media attention. Just saying it useless to bury your head in the sand when pockets of cancer surface.

The 2nd bit, from the Circus Maximus, thats just amazing. Further proof stupidity respects no international border.