Potential D3 Concepts for a Possible Rethink Phase II
]Guidelines for this thread
- This is a thread for a potential D3 DOMESTIC leagues, they could be regional or national, they could involve teams from other nations if it were still a CSA organized league and not USSF.
- This in NOT a thread to discuss the overall validity of a D3 league in general, This thread is to discuss the feasability of a range of D-3 concepts in regards to each other.
- D3 can be a very vague term, however the qualifiers will be simple: A national connection between your division and the CSA (in the pyramid) and going a step beyond amateur (even a mostly amateur domestic division that allowed a couple teams to pay it's players should be sufficient). Certain amateur elements are welcome talking points but should have an obvious connection to developing D3s
- Subjects that are off topic: Non domestic leagues, argueing against any D-3 in general, *sigh* argueing against any d-2 in general *sigh*, D2 and D4 discussions that are not in tandem with a D-3 concept (ie restructuring to avoid creating a d-3, the topic)
I'm hoping that between all that, and me opening this, bbtb won't troll this thread.
I'll probably go through whats left of the other topic and edit in that little chart I made, feel free to just repost some good points you thought might have got lost here in the first couple pages.
Mostly I think it might be good to post a lot of concepts together so that anyone who wanted could pick and choose elements to make a good workable concept. Then we could individually submit whatever we each thought was best to rethink, assuming the phase II goes ahead.
here's the table post I thought was a bit useful, fairly easy to adjust to for other suggestions.
I also found Thiku's summaries of BC fairly informative, so if this thread starts up I might post them too.
Originally Posted by Juby
Last edited by Juby; 04-28-2012 at 05:37 PM.
3. USL Pro
3b. Canadian D2 nationwide 8-12 clubs (would be somewhere between NASL/USL Pro if FCE, Ottawa, Hamilton signed-on)
4. Canadian d3 regional - # of clubs TBD.
5. PDL/Elite Amateur?
6. Elite Youth
D3 Framework - My Idea
-TV/Online streaming sponsorship by CBC, Sportsnet, or the Score (or all 3?). TV only for major games, cup finals and whatnot, online stream for the rest (if we can get it for the games at the cricket grounds in the last WCQ we can get streaming in Kelowna!)
-Highlights posted on sports site web pages
-League wide web page (ie, MLSsoccer.com is portal for all MLS teams, and all web sites follow same format)
-League wide sponsorship (ie, Barclays Premier League)
-Uniform sponsorship - every team wears a CANADIAN-made kit (doesn't have to be that company with the beaver on it!), provincial flag of where team is based, as well as Maple Leaf
-Flights sponsorship for national finals (but year long ads at stadia)
-Hotel sponsorship for nation finals (but year long ads at stadia)
OWNERSHIP: Every owner is able to provide proof of current financial standing, future earnings potential, and league-wide strata fund in the event an owner drops out mid-season ... you know, if yer condo needs a new balcony the strata covers it. Barring bankruptcy the owner leaving the league would be required to return the money to the strata over a period of time (legal arrangement)
Stadium: minimum 500, maximum 2000 seating. Soccer specific. Lighting. Concession. High fences to keep lurkers out, gated entry. High fence blocked out by league sponsored banners/tarps (ie, what Whitecaps had @ Swangard). Covered seating optional. Turf optional. Why a maximum? So the events are nice and cozy. If team consistently sells out then expand or move venues.
Tickets: Cheap of course. Local youth kids get "killer deal", things like that.
Cup: Winners of league come together for a week long championship (ie, not playing every day but maybe 4 games in 6 days?). Both finalists qualify for Amway Cup qualification round v. the USL/NASL/CanD2 teams (whichever is around).
Regional League Make-up:
BC (6-8 teams) & Alberta (4-6 teams) with interplay on a logical sched (ie, two games in one weekend, balanced travel).
Manitoba, Sask, West Ont - 10-14 teams (I am not sure what cities could field such a team in those areas)
Central Ont, Souther Ont, East Ont - 10-20 teams (really not certain, but imagine a lot could come from here)
Quebec (8-10 teams), Maritimes (2-4 teams) with a schedule not dissimilar to BC-Alta.
Cities in BC capable: Kelowna, Kamloops (or Penticton...2 of the 3), Fraser Valley (1 w/ growth potential for 2), Surrey (2), Richmond, Coquitlam &/or Burnaby, Vancouver (2), Victoria and potentially Nanaimo.
*capable = can get up 500+ fans with right circumstances of team and league, could find sponsorship above-beyond the league sponsorship, could drum-up support through youth leagues such as BCSPL (not financial), have stadiums already available that could be adapted to meet requirements.
Youth arrangement: Each "conference" must have a serious youth connection. Ie, a youth "feeder" league.
Squad make-up: maximum squad size of 20, permits available to call-up youth or age-appropriate players scouted through local rec leagues, 3 overage players max, 3 foreigners max (Americans count), NO age restrictions on remainder of squad, nor on playing time.
College considerations: As this is semi-pro there'd have to be something to ensure players don't lose university eligibility
"Generation Adidas": Domestic league national team similar to the MLS generation adidas. Get the best youngster in the league and have them enter into tournaments, complete tours, act as a National "B"type team to supplement those on the full u23, u20, u17 national teams already that are foreign-based or playing in NASL/USL Pro/MLS/University.
Club Canada u19 could enter (Club Canada u23 ideally could be placed in USL Pro).
Salary: Minimum salary 1000 per month age <20, minimum salary 1500 per months age 20-23, minimum salary age 23+ 2500.
Coach: Minimum Head coach, 2 assistants, 1 GK coach, 1 youth scout/liaison (regional), 1 amateur/university scout (regional) - not all coaches full-time.
Youth Development: Must have direct link with local youth elite club(s) and/or youth elite league, and ideally have those games mirror that of the u23 nationwide team (games scheduled to be immediately before or after the u23 team whenever possible).
I like the basics of the idea of trying to connect the d-3 to the varying youth levels, then we can form like voltron around a system that runs fairly consistently (relatively) from top to bottom. There's probably some variety here too, some teams might be best served with an academy, some by sponsoring a whole local youth league, some probably by putting their youth team in a local amateur men's leagues etc.
Originally Posted by ThiKu
One thing I don't necessarily agree with, I've never really minded foreigners in our leagues. I can understand why MLS might be a gross example of this attitude gone wrong. But if we were making dozens of teams, each with a good dozen canadians, I'd be more then willing to let ten guys (a team) from anywhere that can help maintain a strong level of play. I know the concern might be the good contracts will go to players from countries with the same middle range problem, but my comfort level for foreign players is usually right around 50/50(before academies).
Last edited by Juby; 04-28-2012 at 07:49 PM.
Foreigners more or less...I am rather indifferent. At this level it'll be a huge amount of Canucks anyway...
Additional to my idea is the MLS teams should have a PDL or u18 team in the league.....not "reserves" ....
With regards to foreigners, CSL is doing just fine with cheap eastern Europeans and Carribean players. If we added in Oriental players then we would have a solid base of imports who would raise the skill and tempo of the league, but not outclass the younger Canadians to the point of causing difficulties in syncing up the on-field formation.
I think for any concept of a D3 league, there needs to be a max age imposed on the majority of Canadian players in the league that they be probably U-23. Tough to say if that is realistic, but this needs to be a developmental league.
I think having a certain number of over-age players a la the DPs of MLS or Marquis players in A-league that won't hit the restrictions caps is probably a good work-around for any issues with realism of the limits. On a roster of 30 players, I think having 10 overage players seems reasonable, that way you can import quality above the U-23 level which will help the on-field performance, keeps butts-in-seats via roster continuity/notoriety of players, and will provide on-field experience to help guide the youth players in their development.
Originally Posted by Tuscan
We all agree that we need some sort of unified third division in Canada to assist in the development of Canadian players and keep our best prospects from jumping abroad.
Folks, let me present to you, the (insert sponsor here) Championship!!!1!
-The league will be made up of 5 separate divisions; BC, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, and Maritimes. Sorry Prairies and Newfoundland, we love you but it's complicated.
-There will be no regular season play amongst divisions in order to keep travel practical. Bus rides should be no longer than 5-6 hours max.
-Each division should have an absolute minimum of 6 teams and a schedule of 24-28 matches per season.
-At minimum, each of the 5 division champions shall be included into the Cup. The league naming rights will be sold to assist travel for these teams. A portion of each team's league dues shall also be put aside to assist travel, as having these teams in the tournament is good for the league as a whole.
-There would be no league wide championship. The travel money would be better spent in the Big Boy cup.
-The best way to engage the population is to let them have an actual stake in the club. Therefore each club shall be owned at least 51% by "Club Members". Club members would be constituted by anyone who has a current season ticket or has paid an annual membership due. This will also take some of the financial burden off of the local businessman or investors in trying to run a club.
-NO ETHNIC CLUBS! Clubs must represent the community as a whole, not just a small faction of it.
-I do not feel there is a need for age restriction, the competition needs to be the highest calibre it can possibly be. The best young prospects will always find there way on to a roster anyhow.
-Internationals would be capped at 5 per roster to start and reviewed every few seasons to fine tune the balance of talent and Canadian content.
-Salary floor of $60,000 to a soft cap of $120,000 for 12-18 pro players. This gives the freedom to build a squad how the club sees fit, top heavy, balanced, or cheap if need be. So long as each club has a minimum of 12 players paid at least $5,000 per season. Remember this is Semi-Pro, it may not sound like a lot but $120,00 is triple of what most CSL teams spend. You'd be surprised at what this will get you.
The CSL and Quebec league but suggest an operating budget of $150,000 while League 1 is suggesting a trimmed down $100,000, closer to what most CSL teams actually operate at. Teams in (insert sponsor here) Championship should expect to budget $250-300,000 per season. This league is a more Pro Semi-Pro. Clubs need to present a product that looks and feel like fans expect at a pro sports event. The fans need to believe that their club is worthwhile and they can justify spending their entertainment dollars there.
-Because some clubs will have less travel than others there will be a "central travel fund". All travel expenses will be shared equally by all clubs. Any money generated by the soft salary cap would also go to this fund. Isn't communism great?
-Every match needs to be viewable, be it on local cable or internet streaming. Produce weekly highlight shows for each division to be put on youtube.
-Social media, get all over that.
-Team websites will be built by the league to maintain a unified professional look. They will be maintained by the clubs and must be overflowing with content (video and articles).
-The league will have its own app that contains schedules, results, stats, and quick links to twitter feeds.
This league would be the foundation of our football pyramid. As teams grow they can move up to new leagues, whatever they may be. But if our country of 30+ million people and great wealth cannot sustain this level of pro soccer, well then my friends, we are truly ****ed!
Last edited by Alex D; 04-29-2012 at 11:26 AM.
Reason: knew i forgot something
Alex I like your ideas, but you are presenting an "open" league rather than a u23 (with most proposing this age limit with some over-age players included anywhere from 3-10), which you acknowledge. As the lowest level of the pyramid above elite youth, having this league a u23-focus seems to make more sense. Leave the potential D2 for "open" ages...IMO.
1. Each league MUST be 6 minimum not "SHOULD" be.
2. Putting the league winners into VCup is great, but there must be a national playoff as well...maybe the top 2 from each league get together for a weeklong "mini world cup" type competition.
3. Club membership is a great idea but I see this as an option rather than a rule
4. $5000 per player is nice.
Can you comment further on why you think it should be open-age not u23?
Quality over quantity basically. I'd rather see a couple outstanding prospects playing against men instead of a bunch of decent U23's playing each other. There's already a league for that, it's the NCAA.
Originally Posted by ThiKu