A Workable National D3?

[ted]

With recent discussions regarding NASL Expansion in Canada and the Rethink Study it has been suggested, yet again, that one of the key things missing in the soccer landscape in Canada is teams at the D3 level.

Can we bring together the clubs and leagues needed to create something that is truly a national D3 league? What advantage would there be in a new Canadian-only, regional D3 versus the existing (although clearly needing improvements) US & Canadian USL Pro league?

I personally would prefer a Canadian-only league as a patriot and because it would give "us" somewhat more influence, through the CSA, on the league's operations.

That said, I see advantages to the USL Pro (or similar) in that adding American teams to the mix would make it easier to find regional competition and provide a better base for the business side (ie: more teams within a defined traveling distance.)

[ThiKu]

It'd be a great idea if all the provincial associations can play nice Ted. Care to outline how you see this league working? Can it link-up with the Canadian Championship? How long will the season be? Semi-pro or strictly amateur? Things of that nature.

I would imagine a nationwide u23 league would have to be a few provinces combining, and of course strong ownership/sponsorship.

IE- BC/Alta, Sask/Man, Ontario, Quebec, Maritimes all with their own "conferences." QC and Ontario are pretty much ready to go. The Maritimes and the west are the issue.

Expansion to NASL and USL Pro above this would be critical - with no carrot at the end why would young players commit? I think having the Canadian Championship (and the obvious exposure that comes with it) would need to be the other carrot. On top of quality, professional set-up, web sites, sponsorships etc etc etc. The youth teams would need to have dedicated partnerships with the provincial and NTC youth programs as well as elite youth leagues as well ... one way to make the u23 league successful would be to make it the direct feeder system to the NASL and USL Pro expansion teams - kinda like AHL hockey where they are connected to fully pro teams, but are their own entity receiving subsidy from the pro team(s)?

Would a Canadian regional u23 league mean there would be NO chance for American u23's to join if they wanted? Would having American teams joining require USSF permission/partnership? I am thinking of the American teams in the PDL Pacific North West, and even the new Bellingham, Washington team in the PCSL.

[ray]

A Canadian Division 3 league is an achievable goal in the short-term that can have the desired effect of increasing the level of play.

I agree with Ted that an all-Canadian regional league is preferable. For me, integration with the Americans for D1 (MLS) and D2 (NASL) is desirable and necessary to play at the highest level possible and so we don't have to create a 6-8 team league all at once. (In truth, the U.S. also needs us at the D2 level). These reasons do not exist for Division 3. Provincially-based leagues already exist and we see the will (in Ontario and Quebec) to professionalize soccer's 3rd tier. I'd like to see the CSA unite existing D3 clubs under the umbrella of a single league and move away from the various separate efforts (for instance, Canadian Soccer League, USL PDL, proposed League One Ontario). Given what already exists on the ground this may not be possible but it should be the goal where future sanctioning is concerned.

From a practical point of view, having a single league opens the possibility of attracting a major sponsor and focusing media attention on a D3 championship tournament.

[Redcoatsforever]

The two most important sponsors for a national D3 come inter-regional playoffs:

1) Official airline of [league name here]

2) Official hotel chain of [league name here]

I think most league-wide sponsorships should be less focused on bringing in money and more focused on bringing in services and equipment for each individual club, so that a lot of the costs associated with operations are already mitigated before the club finds local sponsors and generating gate revenue.

[ted]

I should clarify. I don't see a D3 as being officially a U23 league and it would either replace or be part of the existing North American D3 which is USL Pro. If you are talking about provincial "conferences" and more than about 16 teams in total you are speaking of a D4, amateur league. D3 is professional, a step or more above CSL, PCSL, PDL etc.

Now while I see no need to designate D3 as U23 (that need is already filled by outfits like the PDL and other D4 operations) a large chunk of players on D3 are likely to be U23 players hoping for better things but why do we need to limit it? That said, a U23 league with a 3-5 over-age players on the field during a game would probably be workable and might have advantages.

I think to provide a full and competitive schedule we need a season that is at minimum 20 games including any cup games spread from April through October. For that to happen we need two conferences of eight teams. More if we eliminate inter-conference games other than a league championship. Less if we were willing to dilute the competition and have teams meet more than home and away once.

Possible All-Canadian D3:
Western Conference: Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipeg.
Eastern Conference: Toronto, Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax, Kingston, Fredericton, Hamilton, Sherbrooke (subject to someone who actually knows the situation back East better than I do.)

But this is a lot of pressure to put on 16 Canadian cities. Just to get to that number we are talking about some marginal markets. Since D3 is professional it would mean we could not compromise the product on the field by diluting any further or trying to run a club in a market that could not provide a minimum of 2,000 average attendance at games.

Which brings us to adding some American teams:

Would having American teams joining require USSF permission/partnership? I am thinking of the American teams in the PDL Pacific North West, and even the new Bellingham, Washington team in the PCSL.

Yes, USSF has to give sanction. If we expand the number of USL Pro teams or we create an all-Canadian D3 and invite American teams the USSF still gets a say.

If we could get six cities playing in a professional D3 operation to start I believe we would be miles ahead of what we have now. Six cities could plug into an expanded USL Pro or other cross-border D3 with much less risk than trying to create a whole new league from scratch. It would also be cheaper overall. Each D3 team would require the same amount of money, X, regardless of if it is USL Pro or a new league. If we have to find 6X versus 12X or 16X we have a much easier job of it.

Six teams could still plug into the Voyageurs Cup gaining themselves more competitive games and exposure on the national scene such as it is. As well, players would have the opportunity to be effectively scouted by NASL and MLS clubs around the continent improving their career prospects which would be, I think, less likely in an all-Canadian league where they would be scouted by primarily just the Canadian MLS and NASL clubs. Not a huge difference to be fair, but something.

Good thinking on sponsorships BTW Redcoatsforever.

[Alex D]

I agree with Ted that there is no need to limit this to a U23 league and expanding the Cup to include these lower leagues is a must.

Honestly at this point I would be happy with a unified, professionally run, pan-Canadian D4 system. Start from the bottom, do it right, and work our way up. We could later launch a D3 by promoting proven clubs instead of arbitrarily selecting markets. Who knows, we could have (Gasp!) pro/rel at some point. We also desperately need an academy league system in the same vain as the USSF has implemented. Yes this is more of a long term move but it beats twiddling our thumbs for another 20 years.

Timeline:

2014- Roll out a new D4 and Academy league across the country
2018- Launch D3 from the best D4 clubs
2022- Start to see results, investigate viability of nationwide D2
2026- Host and win World Cup!
2028- Win Euro somehow!!

[brettinhalifax]

Ted - what kind of budget are you proposing? I guess around $400,000. 2,000 x 10 x $20 = $400,000 and 400k is a number I've seen bandied about for USL2/USL Pro.

Instead of 16 teams playing in 2 regional league/conferences, what happens if there is 8 teams playing in a single national league? Same caliber of play, same budgets with the exception of flights. If we have 8 teams, 4 in the west and 4 in the east, what would Edmonton's away schedule look like? At Victoria (twice), Regina (twice), Winnipeg (twice), London (once), Hamilton (once), Ottawa (once) and Halifax (once). So 6 regional away games and 4 long distance away games.

What is the extra cost for those 4 long distance away games? If we call it $25,000 per long distance game, the total extra cost is $100,000 per team per year.

So here's my question. What is more attainable, 16 teams each with a $400,000 budget or 8 teams each with a $500,000 budget?

[ted]

Honestly at this point I would be happy with a unified, professionally run, pan-Canadian D4 system.

I hear that. I'd be happy with any sort of professionally run, pan-Canadian system for development of soccer in this country!

Instead of 16 teams playing in 2 regional league/conferences, what happens if there is 8 teams playing in a single national league? Same caliber of play, same budgets with the exception of flights. If we have 8 teams, 4 in the west and 4 in the east, what would Edmonton's away schedule look like? At Victoria (twice), Regina (twice), Winnipeg (twice), London (once), Hamilton (once), Ottawa (once) and Halifax (once). So 6 regional away games and 4 long distance away games.

I like the way you are thinking Brett but I'm not sure it could be done. If the money was there it would be fantastic. The danger remains however of putting all our hopes and dreams on a limited number of Canadian teams. By including American teams the burden of league administration and marketing is reduced and the survival of the league is no longer dependant on every team succeeding.

Part of the collapse of the old CSL was that there were that many clubs and when one or two failed the whole house of cards fell down. If we had 6-8 teams in a USL Pro that was 16-20 teams total then losing one or two of the Canadian teams would not cause the whole system to collapse. I think investors would rather put money into something that is currently working and has a good chance to grow and thrive. Putting money into a new, small, all-Canadian D3 has a lot more risk.

As well it is not the same calibre of play to play the same teams multiple times. The ideal of the balanced schedule against more teams is important to both players and fans. Reducing the number of teams played does not help the development of players and risks making the fans, media and sponsors view the league as amateur.

Risk can often be overcome with money. Sadly, that kind of money has been unwilling to come to lower tier soccer in Canada so we have to mitigate the risks.

Speaking of money, in my head I am thinking total budgets of around $600k - $750k because the whole point of a D3 is to have players paid to play and train at at least a minimal level for the season. I am thinking minimum wages of $1,500 - $2,000 per month for players. Enough to make training and playing a priority. Not enough that they think they have made it working for that wage for 7 months of the year.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

USL Pro is basically a D2 league that is operating at D3 level in order to avoid the USSF's stringent D2 sanctioning standards. What is usually meant by D3 in discussions like this is something significantly more regional in scope with budgets in the $150k sort of range. Jim Easton and co came to the conclusion that a Canada only D2 scale league wasn't viable at the present time and recommended a D3 level league with a strong U23 focus.

[ted]

USL Pro is basically a D2 league that is operating at D3 level in order to avoid the USSF's stringent D2 sanctioning standards.

And your point?

They do not meet the very reasonable standard for D2 for they are D3. So what?

What is usually meant by D3 in discussions like this is something significantly more regional in scope with budgets in the $150k sort of range.

[Edited to be slightly less snarky- sorry] We are trying to build something better than what we have now and "discussions like this" need to come into the 21st century and address the needs of the players and the business of soccer in North America beyond 2012.

A budget of $150k is totally amateur with no pay for the players. This would be a horrible mistake. We already have lots of amateur teams at this level and there is no point in investing one single dime in more of the same when what we desperately need is professional players playing in front of reasonable crowds in meaningful games.

Jim Easton and co came to the conclusion that a Canada only D2 scale league wasn't viable at the present time and recommended a D3 level league with a strong U23 focus.

Who is Jim Easton and why should I care what he thinks? Is he a part of the Rethink group?

That said, I agree we could use a D3 league with a strong U23 focus (see the entire thread above). It accomplishes nothing however if it does not include provisions to pay players to train and play. Maybe $600k is too high but $150 is way too low if players, media, sponsors and especially spectators are going to take it seriously.