South America leads all groups it has teams in... what it means for Canada !!!

[Trillium]

As of today ... teams from South America lead all groups in which they were placed, so in the round robins if they had teams in every group it seems they would have led... what is interesting is for Canada and young male players... perhaps we need to start sending our young players south instead of accross to europe ?

If the South Americans are producing such dominance is it only because of number of clubs etc or is it something more fundamental about competition in South America ?

How can Canada begin to send more of our young players after u16 south to play ?

Should we encourage more of our club teams .. especally those in the YSL to go on tour to south america and or spend externded training time in the South ?

Should our clubs look to hire club head coaches from South American countries to give our players a different flavor for the game.. can we bench mark ourselves effectively to what is going on in South America ?


My feeling is the CSA technical folks need to make more connections in the South with professional clubs and we need to have a funded program to send players from our national youth team pools south for extended training .. on u18 and u20 club teams, with the CSA picking up travel and accomodation costs and monitoring the players progress, its proable we could place players for under $1000.00 dollars a month with accomodation ..food etc tossed in and have such players in club youth systems in South American clubs.

[Eric]

The Yanks have been looking to the south for the last 15 or 20 years and look at their progress. Here people still buying what they see on TV without any knowledge about what goes on in South America at all. The CSA still believes that European tours are of better benefit to our youth players and nothing could be further from the truth. Even the African countries still believe that they will benefit more from hiring European coaches for their national teams and the results are out there for everyone to see.
You are right on Trillium, we need to stop wasting money going to Europe and benefit from the technical richness of South America, after all our competition to qualify for the world cup is in the south and not in the east across the pond. Obviously the CSA, OSA and all provincial associations should be giving opportunities to the huge number of South American coaches we have in Canada and not be so worry about their accent or completely different philosophy for the game.

[Sam]

I also feel that South American preparation would simulate a CONCACAF style more than a European style. I believe we had a player in Chile recently (don't know if he still there) but I would love to see more of our players in Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile etc. Problem may be that a lot of these players don't speak Spanish or Portugese and the switch in lifestyle may be more than the trip to Europe. I understand that there is still a language barrier in Europe and a lifestyle change, I'm just speculating here.

[Canuck Oranje]

On lifestyle change, it depends where you go. If you go to a Brazilian city like Ribeirao Preto in the State of Sao Paulo, the lifestyle change is not as great as you might think. Even the income levels wouldn't be that different and the weather is a lot better. I'm sure the same can be said for a some cities in other SA countries as well.

I've posted on this a few times and others have as well, the option of sending a youth team or youth players to a country like Brazil would not be any more expensive than going to Europe. And the training and competition would be as strong as what you would find in Europe especially at the youth level.

Nevertheless, I think why young players end up going to Europe is often because of the personal contacts of coaches or parents,

[oc64]

It sounds like a very good idea. Probably too common sense for CSA to seriously consider it

[kj52]

I definitely agree that the South American option is overlooked too often here. There are excellent packages for youth teams to travel to Brazil for instance, not just to play but to have sessions with Professional Club youth academy coaches. The experience is extraordinary. I know of one group of u16 boys that went there (mid-level premier) and the boy's coach (a close friend of mine) was extremely impressed. The academy coaches they worked with (former national team players) went above and beyond in the sessions and were very approachable, enthusiastic individuals. They were concerned that although our boys were excellent athletes, they needed so much more when they were younger. My friend has taken youth teams to Europe several times and enjoyed the experience but he was amazed at the reception of the Brazilians. They were interested in Canadian youth soccer structure and one of the coaches (Edmundo I think) suggested that, exactly as Trillium noted, Canadian youngsters should seriously consider South America. Of course he also was suggesting that they should be starting very young. When my friend was discussing the difficulties that it presents in 10, 11 year olds going to Brazil, his suggestion was, bring the South American tech people to Canada in their off-season. He joked that they work cheaper and are better than Europeans anyway. Another side note, during their sessions which were in the early evening (under the lights), they were the last players on the training pitch. The tech coaches wouldn't want to stop at the end of the allotted time and under the glares of the grounds staff would carry on with the session, wanting to make sure the players were getting the maximum benefit from whatever training drill they were workng on. It should be noted that the competition for spots is probably at least as, if not fiercer than Europe. Incidentally as noted by Oranje the cost was not any more than a Euro tour and in my friend's opinion there was far much more bang for the buck. (plus I'm sure you can imagine the visual treats at places like Copacabana beach)

[JamesW]

How many of the South American teams have European based players? I might be off, but I would guess that all South American players have a large portion, if not the majority of their players in Europe. How many Americans, the top team in or region, have players playing in South America? I doubt the numbers are high.

To suggest that sending players to South America will solve our problems is very naive. Our problem is we don't have enough players at the levels required. We don't even have enough players to fill the first Canadian MLS team.

This is like suggesting Canada should have sent all their hockey players to the Czech Republic in 1998 or Finland/Sweden in 2006.

[kj52]

How many of the South American teams have European based players? I might be off, but I would guess that all South American players have a large portion, if not the majority of their players in Europe. How many Americans, the top team in or region, have players playing in South America? I doubt the numbers are high.

To suggest that sending players to South America will solve our problems is very naive. Our problem is we don't have enough players at the levels required. We don't even have enough players to fill the first Canadian MLS team.



This is like suggesting Canada should have sent all their hockey players to the Czech Republic in 1998 or Finland/Sweden in 2006.

The point is that those players in large part got their training and typically play in their National leagues until they get to Europe where the big money is. Messi was obviously an exception, going to Barca academy at the age of twelve from Boca but still identified at 6 by Boca and trained there. 5000 Brazilian players playing professional football around the world says everything that needs to be said about their player development. Your hockey analogy makes absolutely no sense, countries like Brazil and Argentina are Canada when it comes to football player development. Trillium's thoughts make good sense, we should look at more avenues, our system in Canada of provincial selects teams and NTC centres is pretty much useless as it is.

[JamesW]

Your hockey analogy makes absolutely no sense, countries like Brazil and Argentina are Canada when it comes to football player development. Trillium's thoughts make good sense, we should look at more avenues, our system in Canada of provincial selects teams and NTC centres is pretty much useless as it is.

That was exactly my point. Canada rules the hockey world because of the sheer volume of people playing for as long as we have had. Not because of a particular style or culture. (besides the cold, obviously) Brazil has a population of 192,000,000 (Wikipedia) and soccer is dominant. This is why they are the top team in the world. Sending a small amount of players down there at the age of 16 is not going to turn those players into world class players. That is utter nonsense to suppose and ignores the reason why these South American players have had success this year and ignores the real model we should be following, the United States.

The US develops players domestically and have had success. The South American nations develop players domestically and have had success. We need to develop players domestically as well.

[kj52]

That was exactly my point. Canada rules the hockey world because of the sheer volume of people playing for as long as we have had. Not because of a particular style or culture. (besides the cold, obviously) Brazil has a population of 192,000,000 (Wikipedia) and soccer is dominant. This is why they are the top team in the world. Sending a small amount of players down there at the age of 16 is not going to turn those players into world class players. That is utter nonsense to suppose and ignores the reason why these South American players have had success this year and ignores the real model we should be following, the United States.

The US develops players domestically and have had success. The South American nations develop players domestically and have had success. We need to develop players domestically as well.

This has been covered ad infinitum in previous threads, the only consensus so far is that there is no quick fix, outside of the hope that MLS teams will eventually have the numbers and money for their youth academies to help our players development. Until then they need to go somewhere else and they better go when they are young.