I don't believe any one coach is responsible for player development from the mini-soccer stage till selection for a national team so no, I don't hold BR responsible for all that is wrong with individual skills of the players on his team. Any player that has national team aspirations would be foolish to limit their exposure to one coach. There is an element of hysteria here regarding BR, he is by no means solely responsible for all that currently ails Canadian women's soccer. There are few coaches anywhere that never come under criticism for their performance, some more than others and I suggest BR himself would be more than ready to acknowledge there are others out there better at the job than him. We all know that other more progressive countries are overtaking us because we have been slow about overhauling our development system so lay blame where blame is due - CSA leadership and initiative.
Originally Posted by ThruBall
Do you even read the other posts before replying?
Ah, yes, it's the players' fault.Any player that has national team aspirations would be foolish to limit their exposure to one coach.
This, I can accept.We all know that other more progressive countries are overtaking us because we have been slow about overhauling our development system so lay blame where blame is due - CSA leadership and initiative.
Yes, to a large degree the players are to blame for the team's failure wouldn't you say? The coach isn't out there on the field kicking the ball. You're falling prey to the 'It wasn't my fault!' syndrome....
Just some global comments on the different themes that have been circulating:
Players. These are the best U17 players in the country. Any other coach would select 85% of them minumum. You could put out the second best 18 and they would consistently take them apart. Is there a hidden gem or two somewhere? Sure. Are there a couple of players a different coach would select? Sure. But anyone with half a clue would pick 16 of the 20. And I'm with Ed, they are golden for what they accomplished in the Summer.
Tactics. We live in a northern climate like Iceland, Norway, Russia, and Finland. Most of those countries play a blend of direct, aggressive soccer and do quite well at it. Geoclimactics play a big part in style. We'll never play samba soccer. We don't have the climate or the culture.
"Northern" soccer is simply a style and tactic. It isn't a sign of weakness or poor skills or coaching. Norways last two major opponents were the Dutch and the French and they drew them both. They are also one of the first European countries to qualify for the World Cup. Their men just beat France and Portugal. The Icelandic women are not far behind and were a goal off the French in World Cup qualifying and a single goal off the Germans in the Euro. These are small countries.
The same tactic that is being decried as naive removed the Americans from the only World Cup they have missed in the history of the women's game at any age.
We will always have to play a counter-attacking, physical, defensive, direct brand of the game to be successful. We just don't have the player pool, culture, funding, coaching or infrastructure to do any differently.
Development. As a country we have an extremely poor platform for developing professional female players. The only way a Canadian girl can play with professional players is to leave the country. We have half a million female players. Think about how criminal that is.
We have more star-potential female players at the U12 age than almost any country in the world, yet we turn out almost no world class players. We are comparatively one of the worst countries in the world at developing female talent from the early teen years to professionalization. At the critical transition age we're a coaching and program cesspool of amateurism and demi-gods. Instead of surrounding our mass of budding talent with experienced professional coaches and platforms we hobble them with amateur part-timers experimenting as they go in programs and platforms which are the global professional equivalent of bush savages or playing dress-up and house with a Fisher Price set.
If we produce any world class professional women they are either a one in a million or have left the country like a de Guzman or Owen ********** (wild that his name gets masked out). That will never change and our ranking and future will continue to erode until we professionalize our women's infrastructure.
Rosenfeld. Great CONCACAF's, disappointing World Cup. That settles to the middle of the road. There's a lot of painfully obvious axe-grinding going on here. Anyone with a kid, player or neighbour who didn't turn out to be Mia Hamm or Cristiano Ronaldo ridiculously blames it on him. Lost on most people is the guy exists because he's better at what he does than anyone else who threw their name in the hat. We have a massive coaching vacuum with thousands of amateurs and part-timers and very, very few quality coaching careerists, let alone people qualified to take a position at the provincial or national level. Kids have a half dozen coaches before they reach him, and spend more time with personal trainers, school coaches, and regional coaches, yet he's the one to blame for their/our failures on the global stage. Satan himself would be proud of that kind of coverage.
Pellerud. The South Koreans use the 100 player yarn too. Not even considering the Americans and Canadians that played for T&T, if any of these teams had an international coach appointed to them full-time for two years they would have made the quarters. He harnessed the energy of the Norwegian Women's Committee's progressive approach in the 90's and when he arrived here continued the good work and re-architected our program to the global standard. But then he lost the plot and the team went into a supreme funk from which they never recovered until he left. He came, he saw, he conquered, he burnt it down and he's not the first or last to do it. He is a very bright career professional who has done great things for a number of countries, but we also got the other side of the coin as well. Another case of settles to the middle of the road.
Morace. Because the World Cup and Olympics are in consecutive years and on four year cycles the beauty of getting hired to coach in CONCACAF after an Olympics is three years of friendlies and preparation time before you get put in a position you're measured on. Quite the dream in any job, especially compared to the week-in and week-out realities of professional soccer.
Last edited by Vic; 09-24-2010 at 01:00 AM. Reason: 72
No argument from me with what you say Vic.
Rosenfeld: Is a hard worker and has done a lot of good things for soccer in OSA/CSA
Morace: Still a young coach with a very limited CV. Give her more time.
Pellerud: You are correct, forgot the US/Canada-based Trinidadians. About 10 of them came down for a tryout, so that makes it 110 world cup team U17 candidates! Sorry. Do not forget that this team gained the first EVER world cup win for T&T.
Given Rosenfeld's role at OSA, I see some overlap between these two paragraphs.
As a coach, one could definitely argue he did what he could with what he had.
As the development manager for the OSA, either he had influence on the conversion of potential talent at U12 into what he had available at U17, or he didn't.
So at what level does he take (some) responsibility?
I recognize that there are limits within the organizations for whom he works, both in resources and in what he's allowed (or encouraged) to do. These structural faults can't be forgotten, but that's an entirely different complaint.
I'd like to see a plan to deal with ALL shortcomings in the program, and that includes the ones that are BR's responsibility. That's my only point.
On the Pellerud topic, I agree he did both good and bad for Canada.
But for T&T, what he did for them is nothing too impressive in my eyes.. and I would say there are numerous other coaches in Canada that could have done the same for T&T with that budget that he was given.... Increase team training to 4-5x per week, put structure into a programme that had almost no structure/seriousness, focus on getting more US/CDN based players, play many international matches etc.
The trip to Korea was through his connections though, so I would give him that.
I have been reading for some time and felt the need to weigh in.
I have watched every U17 game I could find either on a tv or internet feed and note the same differences in style described by Vic. I take no issue at all with his explanations of Canada's tactical approach to the game.
With respect to the conversion of ''promise' at the U12 level to 'achievement' at the U17, U20 and Senior levels... we have serious issues that I think will take a full generation to address. The development of a professional league that is reasonably wide spread would go a long way towards mainstreaming the understanding of this game. I believe that one of the reasons we have serious developmental issues is that there is a broad lack of understanding and appreciation for the game at higher levels and that prevents many of our coaches from helping kids mature into international quality players. In this country, the majority of parents understand the game of hockey... the same cannot be said for soccer. The problem is that when these same people, who are interested parents and often times former athletes, step up to coach soccer, they are out of their depth by the time the kids are 10 or 11 years old. That is one of the reasons we have very very few qualified coaches at higher levels... another forum can be started to describe why many good coaches quit as a direct result of abuse by parents of 13 year olds who know nothing of the game (but I digress). Hopefully the players who are in the system now will convert to coaching when their playing days are over.
As for BR's responsibility for development of players available to the U17 national pool.... he did indeed have influence ---- of kids who happen to live in Ontario. The last time I checked, Canada had a few other provinces besides Ontario and yet the majority of the players on the world cup squad were from Ontario (7 of the starting 11 in the game against Brazil). There seem to be many reasons to criticize the coach... one that hasn't been addressed is the tendency to choose players he coaches regularly. With this reality on the table... he should indeed be taking full responsibility for development, selection and execution. Furthermore, perhaps the CSA should begin looking outside of QC and ON for talent... it exists and as we have seen, the 'large population yields the most talent' argument does not hold water when you look at the results in T&T.
We are wasting the promise of our youth, failing to provide structured developmental systems laden with experienced and talented coaches and disappointing players who strive to represent their country only to be passed over because they don't live in the right province. The answers are not terribly difficult to find... they are discussed on these forums every day. Take a look at how successful countries run their soccer programs... or take a look at how Canada runs its hockey programs. Like it or not, it's the most successful international sport this country has - maybe asking 'why?' will lead us to some answers for our sport.
Oh he has a book with a lot more in it than the ones who came down. Half the core in the tournament was Canadian and American. There's no need to glossy it up. It's a good accomplishment even with the foreigners. And as that level of funding is unsustainable it will be interesting to see what happens next.Pellerud: You are correct, forgot the US/Canada-based Trinidadians. About 10 of them came down for a tryout, so that makes it 110 world cup team U17 candidates! Sorry. Do not forget that this team gained the first EVER world cup win for T&T.
Paul, because of his longevity, personna and success he is the visible magnet and lightning rod for people's displeasure, disenfranchisement, and bitterness. There are 10 provincial managers of player development in the country, many of whom contribute majorly as well and no one could even tell you the names of those people.
A Canadian U17 team eliminates the USA and no one say's, hey that guy's a genius. They wait until you don't get out of group in the World Cup and call you every name in the book and blame you for all that ails Canadian soccer.
It may be convenient and easy to put the horns on someone and burn them at the stake for our international erosion, but the truth is we are all to blame. From U17 to U20 to Senior our problems as a country in the womens game all stem from a lack of professional infrastructure to fast-track and pattern young players as well as develop a large national elite pool of senior candidates.
Until we can give the half a million playing women in this country an option beyond packing their bags we will continue to fade into infinty. Rise above the easy way out and go after the real problem.
Last edited by Vic; 09-24-2010 at 10:19 AM. Reason: 72
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