U17 Women's World Cup: September 5-25, Trinidad and Tobago

[paul-collins]

Paul, because of his longevity, personna and success he is the visible magnet and lightning rod for people's displeasure, disenfranchisement, and bitterness. There are 10 provincial managers of player development in the country, many of whom contribute majorly as well and no one could even tell you the names of those people.

<snip>

Until we can give the half a million playing women in this country an option beyond packing their bags we will continue to fade into infinty. Rise above the easy way out and go after the real problem.

As for BR's responsibility for development of players available to the U17 national pool.... he did indeed have influence ---- of kids who happen to live in Ontario. The last time I checked, Canada had a few other provinces besides Ontario and yet the majority of the players on the world cup squad were from Ontario (7 of the starting 11 in the game against Brazil). There seem to be many reasons to criticize the coach... one that hasn't been addressed is the tendency to choose players he coaches regularly. With this reality on the table... he should indeed be taking full responsibility for development, selection and execution. Furthermore, perhaps the CSA should begin looking outside of QC and ON for talent... it exists and as we have seen, the 'large population yields the most talent' argument does not hold water when you look at the results in T&T.

As I've said before, I'm a neophyte to all of this and I'm learning more from here than I can through my local SA in Ontario. I take as true the assertions that there are serious structural problems to our player development, and wonder how I'm to tell when people are the wall, and when people are the object hitting the wall.

BR has the profile and the other 9 provincial dev managers do not. His fault, or the other provinces? Perhaps a better question is "what is missing to level this disparity?" How much more should I be paying to register my young kids in HL so that when they get old enough to join the development ladder, the ladder goes up?

Similarly, BR using Ontarians because he knows them - I don't know if that's his fault or if it's an inevitable shortcoming of the program within which he works. A national program should be able to get the national talent properly scouted and brought together for meaningful training. Is this happening?

That said, if the games against Ireland and Brazil are indicative of the style of game BR favours, I'm not interested in encouraging my daughter to learn it.

[Vic]

Similarly, BR using Ontarians because he knows them

Just curious on what grounds you make the claim? Do you find it unusual that the most populous area in the country has the strongest league and develops the strongest players? Is that not reasonable? Soccer in the GTA is ultra-competitive with clubs and individuals who amp each other up above and beyond what you see in most areas in Canada. There are U8 teams who play 7 days a week and U11 teams that can drop $1000 in field time in a weekend without a dent in their budget. I'm not sure that the long-term adult performance ratio and metrics are linear, but at the younger ages they certainly are a level above in terms of commitment and intensity. And that comes from someone outside the GTA.

Ontario dominated national All-Stars at girls U14 and U16 with both teams going undefeated. The U14s goals were 15-1 and the U16s were 13-0. Each team won as many games as every other team in their five-group A pool combined.

No one will ever know for sure, but it is at least highly likely that the best players were on the field.

[paul-collins]

I was parroting what P.O.S.P was saying, to wit: "The last time I checked, Canada had a few other provinces besides Ontario and yet the majority of the players on the world cup squad were from Ontario (7 of the starting 11 in the game against Brazil). There seem to be many reasons to criticize the coach... one that hasn't been addressed is the tendency to choose players he coaches regularly. "

PS isn't there a contradiction here:

Soccer in the GTA is ultra-competitive with clubs and individuals who amp each other up above and beyond what you see in most areas in Canada. There are U8 teams who play 7 days a week and U11 teams that can drop $1000 in field time in a weekend without a dent in their budget.

Development. As a country we have an extremely poor platform for developing professional female players. The only way a Canadian girl can play with professional players is to leave the country. We have half a million female players. Think about how criminal that is.

We have more star-potential female players at the U12 age than almost any country in the world, yet we turn out almost no world class players. We are comparatively one of the worst countries in the world at developing female talent from the early teen years to professionalization. At the critical transition age we're a coaching and program cesspool of amateurism and demi-gods. Instead of surrounding our mass of budding talent with experienced professional coaches and platforms we hobble them with amateur part-timers experimenting as they go in programs and platforms which are the global professional equivalent of bush savages or playing dress-up and house with a Fisher Price set.

Is GTA soccer development hot or is it a cesspool? I'm confused here. Perhaps what you're saying is that our up to U11 infrastructure is great?

[ThruBall]

Just some global comments on the different themes that have been circulating:

I’ll include mine - sorry in advance for the long reply …..

Players. These are the best U17 players in the country. Any other coach would select 85% of them minumum. You could put out the second best 18 and they would consistently take them apart. Is there a hidden gem or two somewhere? Sure. Are there a couple of players a different coach would select? Sure. But anyone with half a clue would pick 16 of the 20. And I'm with Ed, they are golden for what they accomplished in the Summer.

To describe these players as the “best” in the country is a little humours; no disrespect to the players intended.

To put your suggestion in context, I would even go as far as to disagree that these players are even the “best” players for BR’s chosen style of play. Clearly the style of play has some bearing on the choice of players; yes? Although every one of these players was recruited from the Provincial Development program, 12 from Ontario, there are players from Provincial programs who were left behind. However, a coach’s responsibility is to select the players he/she believes they can WIN with. BR believes that the Provincial Development program has the best players in the country; you too Vic?

It is generous to these players to suggest that “any other coach” would select 85% of them or that the “second best 18” would be shredded. Wow…. The any other coach in our National system is Morace. Will your wisdoms bare facts in 2011 when she finalises here 2012 rosters (perhaps her choices don’t count?)

Tactics. We live in a northern climate like Iceland, Norway, Russia, and Finland. Most of those countries play a blend of direct, aggressive soccer and do quite well at it. Geoclimactics play a big part in style. We'll never play samba soccer. We don't have the climate or the culture.

Are you really suggesting that the weather had something to do with BR’s U17 performance? Do you think Futsal has any bearing on this? The CSA/ OSA have been very slow in adopting and program planning for the inclusion of this game. It’s just now that the CSA has accepted and produced a LTDP document with Futsal front and centre. Given the game is played on hard courts (gyms) during the off season (winter months), and could have been adopted officially15 years ago, I’m thinking this might have a little more to do with our current player skill level in general versus the weather. Although not “samba nations”, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Germany all have professional Futsal leagues and many more world wide…..

"Northern" soccer is simply a style and tactic. It isn't a sign of weakness or poor skills or coaching. Norways last two major opponents were the Dutch and the French and they drew them both. They are also one of the first European countries to qualify for the World Cup. Their men just beat France and Portugal. The Icelandic women are not far behind and were a goal off the French in World Cup qualifying and a single goal off the Germans in the Euro. These are small countries.

The two final 4 countries in the U17 WC had the ability to posses the ball, play direct, defend, attack, etc. The players are abundantly more skilled than the Canadian players. I can’t believe you mean to imply the Coaching with in these nations had nothing to do with the player’s capabilities and their team’s performance! Unlike you I’m not one who believes the coach should be held unaccountable.

We will always have to play a counter-attacking, physical, defensive, direct brand of the game to be successful. We just don't have the player pool, culture, funding, coaching or infrastructure to do any differently.

First of all, Canada is starving for success in World Soccer. CONCAFF is a qualification tournament it is NOT the goal of either the Men’s nor Women’s program. The senior women’s early success experienced during the EP era has been in decline hence his removal. Ontario has plenty of “ethnic” leagues where the young are playing possession oriented skill full soccer. Unfortunately these players are over looked with in the current OSA development program because they do not fit the current Development Managers (BR) vision for a national player. He does not agree with CM on her vision and does not support her efforts. As a result, we have an impasse to player identification for the current Senior Women’s program. Players of this calibre are officially outside of the OSA Player Development System. The game is alive and well and flourishing in Ontario. A very limited version of the local game is alive at the OSA however with a change at the Manager level would correct this immediately.

Development. As a country we have an extremely poor platform for developing professional female players. The only way a Canadian girl can play with professional players is to leave the country. We have half a million female players. Think about how criminal that is.

Development starts at a very young age. There are plenty of opportunities for young girls to become involved. Volunteer coaching is not all bad. There are avenues for players to gain skills. Evolving the message to the parents needs to be improved. Development centric focus versus playing to win needs to change. That is the CSA / OSA responsibility. Our women are extremely fortunate to be located just north of the world’s most dynamic college soccer league structures. Young women can pursue an education through their choice to play soccer. What a benefit for these women should they choose to go in that direction; a more tangible and attainable goal for a great many more women than a domestic Professional Women’s league.

Rosenfeld. Great CONCACAF's, disappointing World Cup. That settles to the middle of the road. There's a lot of painfully obvious axe-grinding going on here. Anyone with a kid, player or neighbour who didn't turn out to be Mia Hamm or Cristiano Ronaldo ridiculously blames it on him. Lost on most people is the guy exists because he's better at what he does than anyone else who threw their name in the hat. We have a massive coaching vacuum with thousands of amateurs and part-timers and very, very few quality coaching careerists, let alone people qualified to take a position at the provincial or national level. Kids have a half dozen coaches before they reach him, and spend more time with personal trainers, school coaches, and regional coaches, yet he's the one to blame for their/our failures on the global stage. Satan himself would be proud of that kind of coverage.

Parents are not at blame here however! I’m not sure why you would suggest they are? Parents pay their money, commit their time, and support their kids. Clearly they are the true back bone to our Soccer Culture. For sure there is the odd person whose view is “out of line” with reality (any comment?). However that is not at all the case to be made here. Accountability, capability, and performance are the key words that keep coming to my mind when I read through these forum posts.

The facts speak for themselves. BR has no place with in the development structure under the current CSA direction. He doesn’t have the skills. His coaching techniques and efforts at the OSA Provincial Program NTC resident coaching program for the past 4 years have failed. If the world cup is NOT the standard of measure, what is? The OSA is in desperate need of a new Manager of Player Development, but doesn’t seek one. The CSA is in need of a new Ontario resident NTC coach however cannot obtain one due to the silly politics of the OSA. When the CSA moved away from EP with the hiring of CM in late 2008, that signalled the change! There hasn’t been a change at the OSA at the Manager level in over 10 years. It’s foolish to think any dramatic improvement in player development will yield from the current Ontario Provincial Program for CM’s 2012 national team requirements. Politics is standing in the way i.e. the OSA is not removing BR. Give me one good reason why BR should be retained in his current capacities (Player Development Manager, NTC Resident Coach) by the OSA?

Morace. Because the World Cup and Olympics are in consecutive years and on four year cycles the beauty of getting hired to coach in CONCACAF after an Olympics is three years of friendlies and preparation time before you get put in a position you're measured on. Quite the dream in any job, especially compared to the week-in and week-out realities of professional soccer.

The same goes for any coach world wide.

The politics of soccer in Canada are at the core of our nations suffering performances. I’m all for any change in CSA governance that places accountability and performance management back into a power position.

In the mean time – the removal of BR goes along way to improving the status quo. We simply can’t afford to keep waiting for a change at the top!

[Vic]

Soccer in the GTA is amped and cranked on steroids. But they suffer from the same problems as the rest of the country when it comes to women's professionalization. Money and frequency in the hands of amateurs is still amateur. When our elite girls hit the teen years and are in need of great coaching we don't have the professional programs to transition them beyond the global definition of amateur. The GTA get nationally comparative results through size, scale and scope (especially at the young ages) - but they offer no greater solution than cities a small fraction of their size.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Whatever you say, the team stank. It was terrible to watch, whatever style you thought they were playing or excuse you want to make up. They were embarrassing, simple as that. We cannot play that way.

And yes, I have seen how Canada played at its best under Pellerud. I remember outstanding games, playing a "northern" style if you like but with pressure on the ball, criteria in the long passes, talent up front to do something with them, savvy, poaching, and tight at the back. Still not a style that will win big, because it won't. But okay, feasible, doable.

The U-17s were just a sad imitation of that, it was vulgar and demeaning and to use the style argument as an excuse in that case is absurd. We were outplayed in every game, I even said in game in the first match here that I though the Ghanas had won the 1st half on points. We won, but were pretty damn useless. So don't give me this spin about who we are and what we can do, we can do a hell of a lot better than that. The team was atrociously coached.

[The Ref]

^ Agree with you one hundred percent Unnamed Trialist!

[18 Yards]

Thruball...outstanding post. You are in the loop of the looping Cnadain system fueled by the even looper provincial programs and coaches.
Would not even try to say your post any better. Time for those who believe and want to support the teams, to wake up and smell what the rest of the world is cooking.

[Vic]

Jeffrey, were we as atrociously coached as when we eliminated the Americans? We played the South American, European and African finalists. 1-0, 0-1 and 0-2. How bad is that and how much better can we do? Beating 2/3 other continent's strongest teams instead of 1/3? We went toe to toe with Ireland in every statistic and they played a dead even game with Japan who are in the final.

We also played a lot of good soccer long before Pellerud or even Turnbull. Pretty much word for word the way you describe it so it's neither's invention. Pellerud applied Norwegian professionalism to it and replaced the aggression with fitness but we always played a similar brand. That was a function of our relative size with our neighbour and hockey imprinting.

If I am a right-back or striker and I stink the joint out - I stink the joint out. Not the system I'm in. 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-5-1, 4-4-2, WM, Dutch, Scottish, whatever. Strikers score and defenders defend. Great players bubble above coaching, tactics and teammates. And when players continually don't succeed individually, constantly looking to the sideline for failure is a little too simplistic.

It may be vulgar, demeaning and atrocious too, but watching Inter Milan win the Champions League was as much a wall to wall pukefest. Coaching is chess, period.

I look forward to the day we produce players, coaches and teams capable of defeating a group of continental finalists and playing an entertaining brand of the game that delights aficionados. It's a great dream but I'm wondering how a country that doesn't provide a domestic solution for developing professional players is to accomplish it.

[The Ref]

We also played a lot of good soccer long before Pellerud or even Turnbull.

That is certainly not what I heard.
(bold is mine)