Training Camps in South America

[redhat]

I would have to agree with Jeffrey; he asserts that South American futbol is always
evolving from its lessons from Europe. Historically, yes, they have had their own
"style", but it has always been changing and benefitted from the Euro experience.
Notice that quite a bit of Argentine football involved players with Italian heritage,
although it was actually the Brits who established it. (Hence AFA= Argentine Football
Association, not in Spanish.)

Current evidence can be noticed by the number of South Americans, including Chileans,
playing in Europe, especially Spain.

As for getting a training camp in Europe, that I believe is a plus. The only suggestion
I would like Mitchell to have done with the U20s is to SCOUT YOUR OPPONENTS WELL, other
than just video tape. Chile shut down Canada because it scouted our Argentina and Scotland
games quite well, and thus knew who to mark closely.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

I would have to agree with Jeffrey; he asserts that South American futbol is always
evolving from its lessons from Europe. Historically, yes, they have had their own
"style", but it has always been changing and benefitted from the Euro experience.
Notice that quite a bit of Argentine football involved players with Italian heritage,
although it was actually the Brits who established it. (Hence AFA= Argentine Football
Association, not in Spanish.)

Current evidence can be noticed by the number of South Americans, including Chileans,
playing in Europe, especially Spain.

As for getting a training camp in Europe, that I believe is a plus. The only suggestion
I would like Mitchell to have done with the U20s is to SCOUT YOUR OPPONENTS WELL, other
than just video tape. Chile shut down Canada because it scouted our Argentina and Scotland
games quite well, and thus knew who to mark closely.

AFA stands for Asociacion del Futbol Argentino. That sounds Spanish to me. You are correct about the English influence in starting clubs, that is why many clubs have English names. There were also clubs started by resident colonies from Spain and Turkey. S.A. style does not evolved or did evolve from Europe. As a matter of fact, S.A. does not need Europe and used to dislike playing against Europeans because of them being bigger, stronger and too physical, all contrary to the SA style. About SA players going to play in Europe, it is a money thing nowadays and Europe looks for them, not the other way around. There is just as many SA players playing for other SA and Central American countries.

[pulsar]

Not to stray too far from the point but is money and exposure, then, a big draw for Canadians in Europe as opposed to some of us heading South? There are the few that play down there i have learned via our website here, but from an uneducated point of view, it seems that since Cdn. players that can't cut it in europe, roll over and die instead of maybe plying their trade in the Americas (MLS excluded). It would seem to me a logical step to go to Mexico, Costa Rica or SA. Money not that great, a little more of a hostile environment but one can still play football and a decent level and earn a pretty good living.

[pulsar]

"SCOUT YOUR OPPONENTS WELL"

I was wondering how much research went into our opponents. Scouting would be the one thing we would have easy access to. I am assming if that isn't the case we are at the mercy of th CSA on this one

[pulsar]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

I would have to agree with Jeffrey; he asserts that South American futbol is always
evolving from its lessons from Europe. Historically, yes, they have had their own
"style", but it has always been changing and benefitted from the Euro experience.
Notice that quite a bit of Argentine football involved players with Italian heritage,
although it was actually the Brits who established it. (Hence AFA= Argentine Football
Association, not in Spanish.)

Current evidence can be noticed by the number of South Americans, including Chileans,
playing in Europe, especially Spain.

As for getting a training camp in Europe, that I believe is a plus. The only suggestion
I would like Mitchell to have done with the U20s is to SCOUT YOUR OPPONENTS WELL, other
than just video tape. Chile shut down Canada because it scouted our Argentina and Scotland
games quite well, and thus knew who to mark closely.

The Italian team that won the world cup in 1934 was pretty much mostly Argentinian / Italians

[Jeffery S.]

Geez, I thought I was talking about up to the present when I said "has evolved", and we are getting lessons from the 30s, 50s and 60s. The evolution watching Europe then was of course minimal.

The evolution in the last 15 years is maximum. You especially see this with teams that had a very distinct style even in the early 90s and have changed entirely. Colombia is an example, and I am not talking about the poor version in Copa America. An example is the pressure on the ball you saw with Chile and I with Uruguay, that is unthinkable historically in S. America, it was traditionally a lot more lax as the opponents always built so slowly it was not necessary. The lack of urgency was classic in S. American football for the most part, no urgency until the final third. A lot of tight passing through the middle (very exception great attacking wings, like Jair).

My point in any case is that everyone is watching everyone else and evolving, and that you cannot come out and say we should play the S.A style. Chile pressuring the ball in the whole field and not letting Canada pass out with ease is NOT a South American style. It is totally European. The ball skills are typical of younger age teams from nations that stress ball skills (yes, usually southern Europe, but not all of it, and not exclusively as the Dutch have shown, they all have ball skills, or almost all, I recall watching Van Bommel at Barça and thought, this guy has the worst passing game of any Dutch player I have ever seen, it was unthinkable he couldn't make the short pass in a pinch).

I posted this before, two years ago when we summered in Vancouver, and I put my then 6 year old in a Whitecaps soccer camp. He was the best of his age, other parents came up to me to ask about him. In the games he was fouled to hell and walked off the field once crying, they hacked him en masse. And my son is just a slightly better than average player for his age here, as he was then, a typical kid training weekly in futsal or small pitch 6 on 6, does not matter. In his class at school, of 15 boys he is in the top four or five maybe, he is not even the best in his class.

And the difference was and is nothing more than control, pass, shoot, dribble. Both feet when necessary. He does not even move right on the field yet, but he raises his head with the ball on his feet and very calmly, in the mid field, passes it to the guy open. He is lazy, does not defend tenatiously, often disappears in matches, he coasts. But he has the basic ball skilss at age 8 and I think he will never lose them. It is not that hard really.

[Canuck Oranje]

I think a key point here is if you are not good enough to make the big clubs in Brazil, the money is better in the MLS and the talent better in Brazil. In other words, if you have the talent to play professionally in Brazil, why play in Brazil because you can make more elsewhere including in the MLS?

Having said that, the quality of play in Brazil and the rest of South America is very good and it would definitely be an opportunity to learn for any team that chose to have a training camp there.

On who is learning from who, Brazilian coaches are often invited to give seminars by the English FA at their coaches training courses so I think it goes both ways. Here is an example:
http://www.worcester.ac.uk/departments/7868.html

There has also been some criticism leveled by some Brazilian coaches that young players go to Europe too soon because, when there, they do not get the proper training and as a result, end up deficient in parts of their game. That is not necessarily directed at young players who start at European professional academies but more at young players who go to lower level professional clubs and go directly into the first team.

quote:Originally posted by pulsar

Not to stray too far from the point but is money and exposure, then, a big draw for Canadians in Europe as opposed to some of us heading South? There are the few that play down there i have learned via our website here, but from an uneducated point of view, it seems that since Cdn. players that can't cut it in europe, roll over and die instead of maybe plying their trade in the Americas (MLS excluded). It would seem to me a logical step to go to Mexico, Costa Rica or SA. Money not that great, a little more of a hostile environment but one can still play football and a decent level and earn a pretty good living.

[striker]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


I posted this before, two years ago when we summered in Vancouver, and I put my then 6 year old in a Whitecaps soccer camp. He was the best of his age, other parents came up to me to ask about him. In the games he was fouled to hell and walked off the field once crying, they hacked him en masse. And my son is just a slightly better than average player for his age here, as he was then, a typical kid training weekly in futsal or small pitch 6 on 6, does not matter. In his class at school, of 15 boys he is in the top four or five maybe, he is not even the best in his class.

And the difference was and is nothing more than control, pass, shoot, dribble. Both feet when necessary. He does not even move right on the field yet, but he raises his head with the ball on his feet and very calmly, in the mid field, passes it to the guy open. He is lazy, does not defend tenatiously, often disappears in matches, he coasts. But he has the basic ball skilss at age 8 and I think he will never lose them. It is not that hard really.

The big question is, will he play for Canada or Spain?

[pulsar]

quote:Originally posted by striker

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


I posted this before, two years ago when we summered in Vancouver, and I put my then 6 year old in a Whitecaps soccer camp. He was the best of his age, other parents came up to me to ask about him. In the games he was fouled to hell and walked off the field once crying, they hacked him en masse. And my son is just a slightly better than average player for his age here, as he was then, a typical kid training weekly in futsal or small pitch 6 on 6, does not matter. In his class at school, of 15 boys he is in the top four or five maybe, he is not even the best in his class.

And the difference was and is nothing more than control, pass, shoot, dribble. Both feet when necessary. He does not even move right on the field yet, but he raises his head with the ball on his feet and very calmly, in the mid field, passes it to the guy open. He is lazy, does not defend tenatiously, often disappears in matches, he coasts. But he has the basic ball skilss at age 8 and I think he will never lose them. It is not that hard really.

The big question is, will he play for Canada or Spain?

Touche

[pulsar]

Jefferey, the example you bring up with your son has jolted a memory in me. The 1st one being is that my friend lives in Amsterdam and his son has just been brought into the Ajax system. He was over here and was playing with kids 2 yrs. older than him and was schooling them. I asked my friend what they were teaching over there and he said "basics". That kinda drives home your point about training and owning your skills on the most basic level.

Now as for the kid playing for Ajax, he loves it but he hates being owned. He is not even allowed to play tennis or any other sport. And Striker, to answer your future question...he will most likely play for Holland.