Reply With QuotePesch has scored 115 goals (292 appearances) not a bad record, even if he didn't play at the EPL level.
Not that it really matters, but didn't Brennan play in a few games for Norwich in the EPL?
Leaving Simpson aside for the moment, Serioux was an adult pro player when he went over. I think Millwall just gave him that little boost in self-esteem when he realized he could compete at the CCC level and he has taken that and progressed.quote:Originally posted by Grizzly
In general I agree with Ed that the Continent seems better for developing players. England seems to have a short term win now attitude at all levels of the pyramid and thus wants to buy finished players as opposed to developing their own. I think the clubs on the Continent give more emphasis to their youth programs. To be fair to England though, two players who did improve significantly there in recent times were Simpson and Serioux. I am happy however that Simpson did switch to Germany which I think will be better for him long term. I have actually been disappointed in Hume's development since he switched to Leiceister. I don't think you can blame England for players at EPL level not progressing though. Just like La Liga this is a top league and players have to prove they deserve to play and players like DeGuzman, Stalteri and Radz find that there is much more competition for their spots at the highest level of play. We also can not say whether Stalteri is riding the bench or not until he completely recovers from his injury.
We have discussed this before but I am not convinced by Freekick's theory that most of our players should play in Canada at the present time. The problem is the level of play in the USL is just too low. With the exception of Sutton all the current USL national team players are borderline national team players. I don't think one can credit the USL with much of Grande's development because he was there for such a short time. It might have given him a bit of confidence in that he was able to excel at this level but most of his skill was learned in Europe. The MLS team will be a help in that it is another option for our players and a higher level option than previously but certainly in itself it is not a saviour on its own. Once we get to the point where we have 3 MLS teams and 5 or 6 USL teams I might agree with Freekick but even then I think the most talented should go to Europe unless the MLS significantly improves.
I do not agree with Free Kick that our players should stay home. I would argue that a player should try to be developed in Europe no later than high school grad age for the best results.
Pesch has scored 115 goals (292 appearances) not a bad record, even if he didn't play at the EPL level.
Not that it really matters, but didn't Brennan play in a few games for Norwich in the EPL?
That would sound reasonable. Perhaps our youth players are going to a "win now" enviroment when in fact they really need more development. hence their devlopment years get cut short.quote:Originally posted by Grizzly
England seems to have a short term win now attitude at all levels of the pyramid and thus wants to buy finished players as opposed to developing their own. I think the clubs on the Continent give more emphasis to their youth programs.
Maybe its a problem for England as well. Which would explain the contant claims that you hear from the english media that there aren't enough english players around anymore. But you could argue that the four players in the example I provided still progressed to higher levels even after they were beyond the devopmental stage of their careers. This is not happening with the players we have in England.
Very likely. I am going by memory with some of my examples. Bare with me. For example did Devos get transferred from Wigan the year before or the same year that they moved up? But I stand by my basic point.quote:Originally posted by Sigma
Pesch has scored 115 goals (292 appearances) not a bad record, even if he didn't play at the EPL level.
Not that it really matters, but didn't Brennan play in a few games for Norwich in the EPL?
I'm not too sure. I think he was transferred the year the same year they moved up. Ahh I just looked it up, and I'm wrong. Looks like he was transferred the year before.quote:Originally posted by Free kick
For example did Devos get transferred from Wigan the year before or the same year that they moved up? But I stand by my basic point.
De Vos had already played CSL when he went to Darlington, then on to Dundee United, etc, etc. I am talking about development of teens. England doesn't have a very good record when it comes to Cdn players.quote:Originally posted by Sigma
I'm not too sure. I think he was transferred the year the same year they moved up. Ahh I just looked it up, and I'm wrong. Looks like he was transferred the year before.quote:Originally posted by Free kick
For example did Devos get transferred from Wigan the year before or the same year that they moved up? But I stand by my basic point.
I think Serioux didn't only get confidence playing there but benefitted a lot by having to play at a better and faster level than USL, ie. having to think and react a lot quicker. He really improved significantly during the time he was in England, in fact it was one of the quickest improvements I have seen in one of our players.quote:Originally posted by Ed
Leaving Simpson aside for the moment, Serioux was an adult pro player when he went over. I think Millwall just gave him that little boost in self-esteem when he realized he could compete at the CCC level and he has taken that and progressed.
I do not agree with Free Kick that our players should stay home. I would argue that a player should try to be developed in Europe no later than high school grad age for the best results.
I think the majority of players who have done well in England have gone over already fairly well developed for the level they were to play at. The problem in England probably has to do with their league system. They are one of the few countries in the world with 4 nationwide divisions with the lower ones being reletively strong compared to other countries. In addition, there are no reserve teams in these divisions so these leagues are comprised of independent teams with their own fan bases and aspirations. Thus, lower division English teams are less concerned with developing players for the future to possibly sell on and are more concerned with the immediate task of promoting or avoiding relegation. Many 3rd and 4th division teams would be happier signing and playing a solid 3rd or 4th division veteran than a younger more talented player with Premiership potential who is going to also make some mistakes on the field (possibly the reason that Yeovil wasn't interested in a loan for Gyaki and the other young United players). From a fan's perspective the English system is quite good but its drawback is the developmental aspect gets short shrift. Most of the other major soccer countries have regional leagues at the 3rd and 4th division level with possibly a few teams with ambitions but also many who know their place in the pecking order and thus are willing to give younger players a chance in hope of selling them later on. In fact, many countries have 1st divisions with only a couple of strong clubs so even some of the 1st division clubs know where they stand as far as developing players for the larger teams.
My view is somewhat of a compromise between Ed and Freekick's point of view. The best players should still go to where they are going to get the best development and best level of play and for the forseeable future that is in continental Europe. However, we should be trying to raise the level of both training and professional play that our players can get in Canada by increasing the number of professional clubs at both the MLS and USL level. While I think the majority of our better MNT players should be playing in Europe, we should be able to put together a pretty strong B side of domestic based players some of whom may be also A team players or at the very least can easily slide in and out of the A team when needed. The main thing with using European based players is we need to give them enough friendlies so that they know how to play with each other and that is where we have failed in recent WCQ campaigns. If we are going to only play very few friendlies like we have recently than maybe we are better off playing a large portion of the Toronto MLS squad even if better players are available. However, given adequate preparation I think we should use the best players available regardless of where they play.
Even MLS isn't turning out to be the bed of roses when it comes to youth development.quote:Originally posted by Sigma
In a word - no.
It (Toronto MLS) can't hurt though....
De Vos was offered a one-year contract extension only at Wigan, which was their policy for over 30s. He felt being captain they could have offered him more years, or an option. He felt slighted by this offer and chose not to sign again with them. That was the year they went up, so bad luck I guess, in Jason's year they fell in the promotion playoff.quote:Originally posted by Sigma
I'm not too sure. I think he was transferred the year the same year they moved up. Ahh I just looked it up, and I'm wrong. Looks like he was transferred the year before.quote:Originally posted by Free kick
For example did Devos get transferred from Wigan the year before or the same year that they moved up? But I stand by my basic point.
I think that Jamie's best chance of a call up is to get released. How many caps has he gotten since he's been at Ipswich?
For the good of the National Team, he needs to be released.
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