Open Source "Free" Software

[Grizzly]

Well, if some of the articles I post rub you the wrong way I suggest you post some of your own. As long as it's open source I don't have a problem with it. I think you used OpenSuse in the past, perhaps you can share some of your experiences.

You raise the example of Lightworks, I see some of the issues you talk about but if they're claiming their product is open source who am I to argue. I agree that one of the main criteria is code release (which they haven't done) If they are foolish enough to play shenanigans with the open source community this will backfire big time. I quote the example of Xara Xtreme. It was/is a fantastic product but they made the mistake of opensourcing all the code except the rendering engine. What good is that for a hacker who can't work on the most interesting part of the program. That went over like a lead zeppelin and the project quickly failed.

A lot of the articles I post are for introductory educational purposes. To make people aware of what is out there and available that is open source. The fact that I tacitly recommend Ubuntu is because of the help that is available for newcomers. They can make their own decisions about what Linux or open source distribution they prefer and that'll make me happy. Another reason will be the cross platform convergence of Ubuntu. You'll be able to use it on the PC, phone and tablet. There are some who don't want to have to learn three different operating systems.

I'm interested why you seem to prefer OpenOffice over LibreOffice. If I can find the answer to two questions I might be inclined to agree. One is did OpenOffice have the same code cleanup as LibreOffice and two because of the different open source licensing are they able to implement the changes that LO has made into OOo the way LO is able to implement the changes made by Apache/IBM/OOo

Sorry it has taken me a while to respond to this. Again I am not criticizing you posting the Ubuntu articles and it seems to be the Linux flavour that is going to be the mainstream most popular one so I don't disagree that it is probably the best for most novice Linux users to use. It is just there are a number of things that irritate me about Ubuntu in its role as the mainstream big money Linux version. I have never been a fan of Apple either their products or their business practices but it seems they have become the model for the computer industry now. For the most part I think computers are dumbing down and becoming more simple and user friendly but also very limited in their functionality and more and more controlled by the mother corporation. Apple started this, Microsoft jumped on the bandwagon with Windows 8, Google is doing this with its corrupt Linux version Android and Ubuntu seems to be the full desktop version of Linux travelling down this road. Plus Ubuntu seems to be the Linux version with the most money for marketing and also seems to be cultivating the type of fanboy culture that Apple did. Now maybe someone had to do it and it was inevitable but it does not mean I have to like it or not be irritated by it. The concept of Linux was one of an intelligent OS that gave you a lot of freedom and was not corporate controlled and that seems to be getting lost. Plus I always find that the more simple and user friendly devices get at doing simple things the more complicated and non-user friendly they get when you start trying to do more complex tasks with them.

As for Lightworks again I don't really understand your criteria for promoting programs in this thread if you are including it. While for several years they have claimed they will become open source as of this point they are not an open source program by any definition of open source. And having tried their free version it is basically a very limited version of the program much like the trial versions you can use of thousands of other programs that you probably would not list as free here. It is your thread so you are free to include whatever programs you like but in my opinion it is neither open source nor free software. Even a $200 camera these days is filming in high definition but only their paid version will deal with high definition video so that alone makes it very limited. Have you actually used Lightworks yourself? I trialled it and was not impressed at all and would not recommend anyone even waste their time trialling it.

As to OpenOffice and LibreOffice the simple answer to why I like the former better is I have never had any problem with it. Obviously it was too bad that Oracle bought OpenOffice and caused the split in the community in the first place and seeing as many of the developers moved to LibreOffice I downloaded that and started using it. However, I found I continually had problems with LibreOffice and was often switching back to OpenOffice, everything from Microsoft documents not opening to macros not working and a variety of other things which always seemed to work when I tried them in OO. When I googled the problems they were also known problems in LO which may be fixed now but at the time were present in LO and not OO. I haven't done a lot of research on why this is but I did look at a few articles and some agreed with me on prefering OO. I remember one during the days OO was still owned by Oracle saying that philosophically the author felt he should like LibreOffice better but in use he still preferred OO (and of course now that Oracle has turned OO over to the Apache foundation the philosophical objections are no longer present). From what I can gather the LibreOffice team spent a lot of time concentrating on adding features and changing things while the work on OpenOffice concentrated more on stability and making sure that it could open Microsoft Office documents correctly and export well into Microsoft Office. I have yet to use any of the new features available only in LibreOffice and don't like the changes in layout that have been made. Possibly all the developers of LibreOffice got too ambitious without the direction of a corporation like Sun to curb their overprogramming tendencies. Another thing that irritates me a great deal about LO is whenever I open a document in it, LO makes itself the default program for this type of document without asking me which has me considering deleting it entirely from my computer even though I would prefer to keep both.


As to your questions I do know there was some code cleanup in OO though I do not know how extensive but the startup time was improved like in LO which was one of the few weaknesses of OO before the split. Also many report OO as being more stable than LO though I personally have never had a problem with crashes in either program. I am not an expert on licences but I would think they could implement any changes made in LO under the Appache licence because it is a more free licence than the GNU licence used by LO though maybe the GNU licence might cause some problems.

[The Ref]

Thank you for your detailed posting Grizzly, it clarified things for me and also learned some others.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I have to say I disagree with Grizzly's stance re OpenOffice vs LibreOffice. There was a good reason for the split and OOo remained dormant for a long time, it's just starting to get its poop back together under Apache. So, I wouldn't advise jumping back to OOo from LO just yet. I'll detail more points when I get a minute.

I'm more inclined to agree with his position on Lightworks, we totally disagree on Ubuntu and totally agree on Chromebooks More later.

[Grizzly]

I have to say I disagree with Grizzly's stance re OpenOffice vs LibreOffice. There was a good reason for the split and OOo remained dormant for a long time, it's just starting to get its poop back together under Apache. So, I wouldn't advise jumping back to OOo from LO just yet. I'll detail more points when I get a minute.

I'm more inclined to agree with his position on Lightworks, we totally disagree on Ubuntu and totally agree on Chromebooks More later.

To say OO was dormant for a long time is neither fair nor accurate. There was development of the program under Oracle and while a lot of it was less sexy than the new features and new look of LO to me the Oracle OO simply worked better than LO (I initially switched completely over to LO and there was a reason I switched back). Nor was the project dormant after Oracle donated the project to the Apache foundation although admittedly a lot of development time was spent moving the project to Apache's servers and making sure the everything in the program was complaint with the new Apache licence.

The first major Apache release is supposed to be at the end of June and that will probably give a very good indication of where OO is headed. Personally I was very happy with OO before the split and would be happy if it went on being developed as before the split. In my opinion it was a very mature product and did not need radical changes. When updates were made before the split the things I was doing with the program continued to work and I was happy with the changes made. That stopped when the split occurred and while each update of LO brought noticeable changes it also brought things that did not work and changes that I did not feel improved the program. Every article I read about LO talks about the added features so I don't doubt that they are there but I have yet to use any of them or need something that was not available in OO. I am not a power user but I do think I am using it more extensively than the average person who would use an office suite. Now the next Apache release may or may not be to my liking but at the moment I am happier using the OO I have installed on my computer than I am with LO which is also installed on my computer.

[The Ref]

I tried to update my OO 3.3.0 to 3.4.1 but upon clicking on Download it goes to a Help Promote OO... etc window and nothing gets downloaded. What am I doing wrong?? thanks

[Joe MacCarthy]

The first major Apache release is supposed to be at the end of June and that will probably give a very good indication of where OO is headed.

Where it's headed is its implementation of a ribbon interface and its merging with code from the former IBM Lotus Symphony. This could prove very interesting because a common complaint from LO's detractors is its so-called dated UI. But the beauty of it is, if the OOo interface goes over like da bomb LO would be able to use the code. Still not sure how easily that applies to going the other way (see post on licensing below)

[Joe MacCarthy]

I tried to update my OO 3.3.0 to 3.4.1 but upon clicking on Download it goes to a Help Promote OO... etc window and nothing gets downloaded. What am I doing wrong?? thanks

I'll leave that one to our resident OOo advocate

[Joe MacCarthy]

Interesting article - JM

Wanted: A Free Accounting Application for Non-Profits
Non-Profit Accounting Software
Bruce Byfield

The Software Freedom Conservancy is raising funds to fill a major gap in free software functionality.

Just because Bradley M. Kuhn is executive director of the Software Freedom Conservancy doesn’t mean he is exempt from grunt work. As one of only three permanent staff members, Kuhn is used to doing all sorts of unexpected tasks – including keeping the Conservancy’s books.

Consequently, when he states that free software lacks accounting software that can answer the requirements of non-profit organizations (NPOs), you can be sure he knows what he is talking about and that there is a real need for the Conservancy’s current campaign to hire a developer to take the first steps toward building such an application.

...

The first task will be to produce and publish a detailed comparison of existing free accounting software. “We don’t want to reinvent the wheel,” Kuhn explains, adding, “I’m a real believer in code re-use.”

As might be expected, Kuhn himself favors Ledger, with his scripts as a basis for the new software. However, his own role will be purely administrative, and he emphasizes the value of accessing all the possibilities before making a decision.

When the first phase is complete, the second will be to produce a basic application suitable for use by American NPOs. This application will include basic features for managing accounts payable and accounts receivable, reconciling bank statements, and producing reports in preparation for an annual audit.

What code will be re-used and whether the new software will be a web application so it can be cross-platform are decisions that will only be made during the project. However, Kuhn says, “I have an acid test to decide if we’ve been successful after the first year: if I can bring in a bookkeeper for the Conservancy and hand them the system and say, ‘Keep the books in this system,’ and they feel comfortable doing it. It will be a little different from what they’re used to because it’s not going to be QuickBooks, but if their problems are minimal, and they say, ‘I can keep the books in this; this all looks normal and I can handle it,’ that’s the real acid test.”

...

Full article

[Joe MacCarthy]

Good debate on the pros and cons of both LibreOffice and OpenOffice licensing. Every time someone makes a good point someone else counters the argument. I don't want to get into this one.

[Grizzly]

I tried to update my OO 3.3.0 to 3.4.1 but upon clicking on Download it goes to a Help Promote OO... etc window and nothing gets downloaded. What am I doing wrong?? thanks

Are you updating off their website or through the program itself? If you go to this page it will download 3.4.1 but you have to click on the green box with the arrow not where it says download on the menu bar: http://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html