ASA Shakeup

[Ed]

Can anybody confirm that the executive director of the ASA was fired at the end of February? And why??


cheers.

[tmcmurph]

Executive Director = vacant
That is all I can see on the website.
http://www.albertasoccer.com/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=BoardofDirectors&category=Main

Hmmmmmm

[Vic]

Job's already closed:

http://www.albertasoccer.com/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=EmploymentOpportunities&category=Main

[fishman]

All I can say is that since Gary Sampley left the ASA back in about 2003, the provincial association has seen at least six people serve as Executive Director. I don't think anyone can keep count. And since that time, Saskatchewan and Manitoba have both seen new indoor, full-sided facilities built, their technical sides improve...and Alberta is seemingly going backwards.

[Ed]

Well club soccer is getting better and better so I am not losing much sleep over that. It was our beloved ASA that first put ********** in touch with the Welsh FA.

[Richard]

^ A the time and under the prevailing circumstances, what would you have done otherwise with a player of ********** potential?

[Ed]

This was just after he was cut by TT in the U17 tryouts but. What would I have done otherwise??? Simply to tell him to wait for the next nat team cycle for Canada and taken him out for a tatoo.

[Richard]

^ Very constructive. I think the ASA made a much better suggestion.

[jpg75]

^ Richard, i'm going to ask you point blank and i want you to answer either yes or no; do you consider yourself a fan of the Canadian Men's national soccer teams?

[Cheeta]

^ Very constructive. I think the ASA made a much better suggestion.

Eh?

[Richard]

^ Richard, i'm going to ask you point blank and i want you to answer either yes or no; do you consider yourself a fan of the Canadian Men's national soccer teams?I am a Canadian MNT supporter of course, I also support an individual's right to choose. However my response was to the implied criticism by the OP that ASA did wrong by suggesting OH look elsewhere for opportunities in the almost complete absence of equivalent opportunities for him locally at that time. Considering how well he has done versus what might have happened had he stayed in Canada I suggest they made a good recommendation. This has nothing whatsoever to do with his choice of which national team to play on but there I respect his right to make whatever choice he wishes. Many don't enjoy that luxury.

[Richard]

Eh?You failed to grasp what I was saying evidently.

[jpg75]

I am a Canadian MNT supporter of course, I also support an individual's right to choose. However my response was to the implied criticism by the OP that ASA did wrong by suggesting OH look elsewhere for opportunities in the almost complete absence of equivalent opportunities for him locally at that time. Considering how well he has done versus what might have happened had he stayed in Canada I suggest they made a good recommendation. This has nothing whatsoever to do with his choice of which national team to play on but there I respect his right to make whatever choice he wishes. Many don't enjoy that luxury.

OH would have still had opportunities to leave the country to further his career AND play for Canada. Just because he was cut from the U17's does not mean his development would have been stunted by not pursuing other international options. I am baffled that you do not see the contradiction in a CSA stakeholder encouraging a prospect to pursue playing for a rival national body.

[Ed]

I am a Canadian MNT supporter of course, I also support an individual's right to choose. However my response was to the implied criticism by the OP that ASA did wrong by suggesting OH look elsewhere for opportunities in the almost complete absence of equivalent opportunities for him locally at that time. Considering how well he has done versus what might have happened had he stayed in Canada I suggest they made a good recommendation. This has nothing whatsoever to do with his choice of which national team to play on but there I respect his right to make whatever choice he wishes. Many don't enjoy that luxury.
I think you are missing my point. He was going to Germany that fall/winter anyway. The Welsh opportunity had nothing to do with his trial with Bayern and subsequent success abroad. So 'staying in Canada' wasn't the 'poor' alternative he faced, he was going abroad anyway. I just find it distasteful that people who are employed to build CDN and CDN PROVINCIAL soccer would recommend that a promising player look to play for another country.

This has nothing to do with the eventual choice that Owen made, which has been discussed to death and beyond. It has to do with the behaviour of people employed with the mandate to grow the Cdn game.

[Richard]

"I just find it distasteful that people who are employed to build CDN and CDN PROVINCIAL soccer would recommend that a promising player look to play for another country."

My point all along has been what would you have suggested for a player like OH under the circumstances prevailing in Alberta/Canada at the time. Where would you have recommended he go to develop his game?

[Ed]

And your point is moot as he was on his way to Bayern for a trial regardless, a very good spot 'to develop his game'. So I would have said 'go to Bayern; play for Canada at your next opportunity'.

[Richard]

So your original implied criticism of the ASA was rubbish then because you have just recanted. Well done.

[Ed]

I think we are off on two different tangents here. My criticism of the ASA is about the ASA suggesting he play FOR another country, not IN another country. I don't follow you in saying that I've recanted my criticism. I haven't.

[tmcmurph]

To be fair OH had much less in the way of choices than current players. In that era elite soccer players had nothing north of Mexico to play in at a serious level. Any player of his skills would have been thinking Europe all along and if anyone suggested anything else back then they were daft. The fact that he chose UK over us makes most of us upset at some level.

These days the Caps still send players over to Germany and England but nobody makes any complaints about it because they play or plan to play for Canada's MNT (mostly so far). Sure I'd love to see Haber in a Caps uniform but he has EPL dreams and it is silly for a club to get in the way of a player and his dreams.

[Ed]

^ What are you arguing about. The fact that he went to Germany has nothing to do with my criticism of someone at the ASA putting him in contact with the Welsh FA. Has nothing to do with club football and all to do with national team football.

[Richard]

He was dropped by Canada, I don't blame him for looking for opportunities elsewhere to further his career, whether it was suggested by somebody at the ASA or not. This whole debate is silly really, the man wanted to play soccer at the highest level he could. He eventually chose to play for England and not Canada, after Canada turned its back on him, plus he was eligible for both and free to choose. Frankly, it was much more difficult to make the English team than the Canadian team in terms of competition for places and it served his professional career well. Much more meaningful on the international stage to play for England than Canada - then and now - good for him for making it. At that level it is business and personal ambition, not nationalism.

[Alex D]

At that level it is business and personal ambition, not nationalism.

Sickening, but unfortunately true.

Cutting a kid from a U17 team is hardly "turning our back on him". You make it sound like we exiled him to the forest to live with the wolves.

[El Hombre]

He was dropped by Canada, I don't blame him for looking for opportunities elsewhere to further his career, whether it was suggested by somebody at the ASA or not. This whole debate is silly really, the man wanted to play soccer at the highest level he could. He eventually chose to play for England and not Canada, after Canada turned its back on him, plus he was eligible for both and free to choose. Frankly, it was much more difficult to make the English team than the Canadian team in terms of competition for places and it served his professional career well. Much more meaningful on the international stage to play for England than Canada - then and now - good for him for making it. At that level it is business and personal ambition, not nationalism.

A couple things:

1) Yes, Richard, we know you believe that everyone is free to choose. That's great, good for you. That's not the issue here.

2) Canada turned it's back on OH? That's a little harsh. He was cut from a junior team. As Ed said, for a Canadian provincial association to then tell him to go play for a different national team is terribly disappointing. I did not know that this was the case. How do we instill a little pride in playing for Canada when we are advising kids to play for other national teams.

3) Also, we're talking about Wales here and not England. From the story that Ed told, the ASA suggested he play for Wales instead of Canada. Playing for Wales is not on the same level as playing for England and I would say is marginally better (if at all) than playing for Canada. It's not like playing for Wales was going to make or break him in his professional career, especially when he was already on his way to Bayern. I doubt that OH saw playing for Wales as his key to a top drawer career in Europe.

[fishman]

After what has been a bit of a thread hijack (any chance to get after OH...especially after he returned to the ManUtd reserves...)

Still, the OH rants might be related somehow. And if they are related, it is through how the dysfunctional operations of a Provincial Association can seriously impact player development in Canada.

FYI, there have been 7 Executive Directors in 9 years, with the longest tenure being 16 months.

[bettermirror]

Mod post: Please return discussion to the Alberta Soccer Association. The OH topic has been rehashed ad nauseum.

[kj52]

The Executive Director has been dismissed without cause and the President has been suspended. These actions were done by some members of the Board of the Board of Directors and are contrary to the Bylaws and Rules & Regulations of the ASA (in essence making the suspension and firing legally invalid). Referring to a previous posting, these actions were done by the same people who have been responsible for the constant disruptions of the past seven years. Because of the extreme actions of these individuals, there is a strong groundswell of anger building in Alberta. It should be noted that the President (one year in office) was working towards governance reform, both in Alberta and with CSA. Those who have hijacked ASA do not want their powers reduced. There will definitely be much more to come from this.

[Ed]

Well someone who actually has some info!! Thanks for that. Please keep the V's posted if you get more info.

[jpg75]

Sounds like the rats are trying to hang on as long as they can...

[alberta white]

Sickening, but unfortunately true.

Cutting a kid from a U17 team is hardly "turning our back on him". You make it sound like we exiled him to the forest to live with the wolves.

Lord not the Wolves! Living in the shadow of Mick Macarthy would traumatise anyone;)

Anyway On this Nationhood debate. I have a senario to consider.
I have been in Canada for the Last 18 months, (best move we ever made as we narrowly missed the UK recession). PR is on the way and My Five kids will probably/ eventually become Canadian citizens.
all their schooling and coaching will continue in Canada.

However they were born in the England, with Irish Ancestry. (my maternal and paternal great grandparents).

If presented the opertunity to play representative football, which would not happen for at least 7 to 10 years or so, with whom should they side?

Im not saying the're going to do so, I'm just asking a Hypothetical.:confused:
Perhaps this should be look at in another thread.

[TFCRegina]

Lord not the Wolves! Living in the shadow of Mick Macarthy would traumatise anyone;)

Anyway On this Nationhood debate. I have a senario to consider.
I have been in Canada for the Last 18 months, (best move we ever made as we narrowly missed the UK recession). PR is on the way and My Five kids will probably/ eventually become Canadian citizens.
all their schooling and coaching will continue in Canada.

However they were born in the England, with Irish Ancestry. (my maternal and paternal great grandparents).

If presented the opertunity to play representative football, which would not happen for at least 7 to 10 years or so, with whom should they side?

Im not saying the're going to do so, I'm just asking a Hypothetical.:confused:
Perhaps this should be look at in another thread.

I have no shame in this matter. I'll be the first to say that anyone eligible to play for Canada should play for Canada, irrespective of country of birth. Otherwise, I see them as not Canadian in any sense of the word, and I view them negatively.

I don't care if it's "poaching" off of other countries, we should do it. Everyone else is doing it to us.

It's a classic Prisoner's Dilemma game. In an ideal world, everyone would play for the country of their birth. The way the rules are set up the only dominant strategy is poaching. If we don't do it, we lose out.

So, essentially, I'm saying your kids should play for us, because they're Canadian. And I don't give a damn if it's hypocritical.

[jpg75]

Lord not the Wolves! Living in the shadow of Mick Macarthy would traumatise anyone;)

Anyway On this Nationhood debate. I have a senario to consider.
I have been in Canada for the Last 18 months, (best move we ever made as we narrowly missed the UK recession). PR is on the way and My Five kids will probably/ eventually become Canadian citizens.
all their schooling and coaching will continue in Canada.

However they were born in the England, with Irish Ancestry. (my maternal and paternal great grandparents).

If presented the opertunity to play representative football, which would not happen for at least 7 to 10 years or so, with whom should they side?

Im not saying the're going to do so, I'm just asking a Hypothetical.:confused:
Perhaps this should be look at in another thread.

Is your wife or her parents Canadian? If not, then the only way your children can play for Canada is if they spend 5 consecutive years here after the age of 18. So if they grow up here, play in the FC Edmonton academy and eventually use MLS to launch a pro career in the EPL someday they would have to stick around until the age of 23 before we could cap them.

[yomurphy1]

The new rules make no sense. For example if someone moves to Canada at the age of 2 and leaves at the age of 22 to play in Europe are they not able to play for Canada?
Sorry for being off topic.

[Vic]

Raise them to be great human beings and let them decide.

[Richard]

^ Couldn't agree more.

[alberta white]

Is your wife or her parents Canadian? If not, then the only way your children can play for Canada is if they spend 5 consecutive years here after the age of 18. So if they grow up here, play in the FC Edmonton academy and eventually use MLS to launch a pro career in the EPL someday they would have to stick around until the age of 23 before we could cap them.

So if I read you correctly. If the Parents of a child gain citizenship. The above is null and void? If not then there must be heck of alot of potential migrant kids lost to the MNT in the coming years. Not saying that these Kids wont feel Canadian enough as not to be up for playing for 'their country' but theres not many who would hang around for that long, Especially if they have been picked up by a club and are on the Agents' Radars. :(

FIFA's ,current position on naturalisation appears to be one of the reasons the FA in England courts the Young International brigade in the English acadamies. I won't be suprised to see an England Team of 2020 consisting of more Players than usual born outside of the British isles.

It would do the CSA no harm to keep a watching brief on how the FA operate in these matters.

On a lighter note regarding Eligability...
The concept of national team eligibility continues to elude some fans. Take this exchange, for example, on TalkSPORT’s Scottish phone-in when goalkeeper Antii Niemi still played for Hearts (borrowed from Jason Burt’s “The Sweeper” column in The Independent, 1 January 2003):

“Caller: I'm a Hearts fan and, fair enough, Stephen Pressley gets a game for Scotland but what I can't understand is why [national coach Berti] Vogts never picks Antii Niemi.

“Host (former footballer Arthur Albiston): Eh? Sorry?

“Caller: Why does he never pick Antii Niemi for Scotland?

“Host: It's because he's Finnish.

“Caller: What?

“Host: Antii Niemi is Finnish.

“By now enraged caller: He's not Finnish! He's only 28!” :eek::D

taken from the link below

http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamBack/Eligibiliy.html

If you read the link you get an Idea of How England Screwed up Over Ryan Giggs due to UK associations' self imposed Grandparents rule.

[jpg75]

The above is null and void if the either of the parents or grandparents are BORN in the country. So if your wife or her parents were born here then the kids can play for Canada.

And yes, a kid who moves here at age of 2 and leaves to play pro overseas at 22 cannot play for us. But a kid who has never set foot in the country and who has a Canadian-born grandparent CAN play for us. They've perhaps switched a little too far in the other direction with these new rules, but theoretically we should gain a net benefit from them (if the really good Canadian-born players actually gave enough of a **** to play for us).

[yomurphy1]

We are doubled screwed here, firstly most Canadians would be eligible for other national team especially with the grandparents rule. Also this ignores the fact that immigration happens for non soccer purposes. They must introduce a new residency requirement they for players under the age of 18. Does it make sense that a 23yo Brazilian who played for TFC for 5 years can play for Canada and a kid that grew for the majority of there life cannot???

[tmcmurph]

Have them play for Canada. It has to start somewhere and who knows maybe it will be your kids everyone looks back at as the turning point for Canadian international soccer. If not our kids then who? If not now then when? If a couple of excellent players decide to play for Canada and try to help build the sport then it starts a snowball effect where more good players want to play for us.

[alberta white]

I have no shame in this matter. I'll be the first to say that anyone eligible to play for Canada should play for Canada, irrespective of country of birth. Otherwise, I see them as not Canadian in any sense of the word, and I view them negatively.

I don't care if it's "poaching" off of other countries, we should do it. Everyone else is doing it to us.

It's a classic Prisoner's Dilemma game. In an ideal world, everyone would play for the country of their birth. The way the rules are set up the only dominant strategy is poaching. If we don't do it, we lose out.

So, essentially, I'm saying your kids should play for us, because they're Canadian. And I don't give a damn if it's hypocritical.

I thank you for the solidarity.

[alberta white]

The above is null and void if the either of the parents or grandparents are BORN in the country. So if your wife or her parents were born here then the kids can play for Canada.

And yes, a kid who moves here at age of 2 and leaves to play pro overseas at 22 cannot play for us. But a kid who has never set foot in the country and who has a Canadian-born grandparent CAN play for us. They've perhaps switched a little too far in the other direction with these new rules, but theoretically we should gain a net benefit from them (if the really good Canadian-born players actually gave enough of a **** to play for us).
From what I could make out on the FIFA guidelines the 'Grandparent Rules' tend to be at the determination of the individual associations.
FIFA only appear concered with a individual not playing for more than one country after taking part in a 'competative international fixture'. So long as the Player is 'Naturalised' in that country.

[jpg75]

From what I could make out on the FIFA guidelines the 'Grandparent Rules' tend to be at the determination of the individual associations.
FIFA only appear concered with a individual not playing for more than one country after taking part in a 'competative international fixture'. So long as the Player is 'Naturalised' in that country.

Trust me, there is a residency rule in place. It's what stopped us from capping Ugo Ihemelu.

[Kicked]

Silly me.. I came to this thread thinking someone had posted news on the ASA Shakeup.

[Ed]

^ How naive are you?
BTW, have emailed the Calgary Minor Soccer Association asking for their 'news' on the ASA goings-on to be part of their newsletter, as opposed to biweekly updates on Owen **********' injury woes (touching on the on-topic and off-topic in one post!!!!).

[kj52]

I don't think you'll get much response from CMSA Ed. They look to be sitting firmly on the fence on this. We'll see at the Special General Meeting(s) in Red Deer on the 24th how it all hashes out.

[fishman]

At the meeting held last weekend, nearly the whole board was unceremoniously dumped. President Chris Billings was returned to his position, the two Vice-Presidents were piffed, the Past President was removed, the Director of Finance was replaced, and almost all Directors-at-Large were kicked out of office.