CONCACAF Champion's League Participation

[Canuck Oranje]

Posting this here because I am curious if others see the same possibility.

With the Whitecaps and the Impact involved in a competition with TFC for participation in the CONCACAF Champions League, could this lead to some investors in other cities in Canada entering the USL? That is, if the competition is successful attendance-wise?

USL is less restrictive than MLS in terms of player signing and player development rights. If wealthy investors from say Hamilton or Kitchener-Waterloo (as an example) were to be attracted to the sport, I doubt TFC could keep them out if they joined the USL.

I find this thought intriguing. Your thoughts?

[Canuck Oranje]

Or what's to stop Montreal and Vancouver from picking up some higher quality players for the tournament like Sao Paulo FC did for the Copa Libertadores this year with deals for Adriano, Fabio Santos and Carlos Alberto with their respective European clubs?

[CanadianSwede]

I was thinking along the same lines. This competition may give the needed incentive to for possible owners to invest in teams. I don't know where though.

[DinamoTFC]

I agree as well, I hope this tournament will lead to the creation of more USL Canadian clubs like Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa or Quebec City. Once more candian teams rise up, I see the future end of the joke CSL.

[tmcmurph]

>could this lead to some investors in other cities in Canada entering the USL?

I hope so. We need more than 3 pro teams in Canada but we will probably only get 3 MLS (TFC, Van, Mtl). That leaves the USL which is much more affordable. Lets hope prospective owners take a 10 year view and make it a long term plan. Having teams fold all the time is not a good thing.

If you go by population sizes and the ability to support a USL franchise here are some stats:

1 Toronto ONT 5,113,149 MLS
2 Montréal 3,635,571 MLS
3 Vancouver 2,116,581 MLS
4 Ottawa 1,130,761
5 Calgary 1,079,310
6 Edmonton 1,034,945
7 Québec 715,515
8 Winnipeg 694,668
9 Hamilton 692,911
10 London 457,720
11 Kitchener 451,235
12 St. Catharines 390,317
13 Halifax 372,858
14 Saskatoon 202,340
15 Regina 179,246

Even though Saskatchewan has 2 relatively small cities I've included them here because of the rabid sports fan mentality that seems to come from there. 25% of Calgary is from Sask and they show up at all sporting events (CFL, WHL, etc) in good numbers. Whether that can be carried over to soccer has yet to be established.

The 4th to 8th place have good sized populations. I've excluded anything in the immediate vicinity of the 3 MLS teams because they would be the main draw in that area. I'm sure Scarberia could support a team (hell they could field a team will all local talent if they had rights to all the players from their area!!). How many teams you could support in the south Ontario region is anyone's guess.

This brings up another interesting point. USL-1 during warm season and CMISL during the winter? It would provide year round employment for the players. Just an idea.

[Luis_Rancagua]

I was wondering if perhaps by 2010 or 2012 the provincial semi-pro clubs could join this tournament. I will like to see the Ontario, Quebec, BC, or Alberta champs take-on the Impact, Whitecaps or TFC for the Canadian title to represent Canada at the CONCACAF Champions League tournament. This could be the making of the 1st Canadian open cup tournament.

[PostmanPat]

quote:With the Whitecaps and the Impact involved in a competition with TFC for participation in the CONCACAF Champions League, could this lead to some investors in other cities in Canada entering the USL? That is, if the competition is successful attendance-wise?

Possible, not directly but it will raise the profile of the professional game here in Canada. If the profile of the game is raised, then there -should- be businessmen who are willing to invest in USL clubs viewing -maybe- towards future involvement with MLS. MLS is rapidly reaching that point where it can't expand any further without straining the schedule too much, and the expansions fees are becoming more and more exorbitant so USL might seem very inexpensive in comparison.


quote:I was wondering if perhaps by 2010 or 2012 the provincial semi-pro clubs could join this tournament. I will like to see the Ontario, Quebec, BC, or Alberta champs take-on the Impact, Whitecaps or TFC for the Canadian title to represent Canada at the CONCACAF Champions League tournament. This could be the making of the 1st Canadian open cup tournament.

I think that adding the provincial league winners, CSL and PDL clubs would be a good idea for the new Canadian Cup, even if you play them in a qualifying round prior to the round involving the fully professional clubs then you might boost their local image through televised home matches, TV revenues and prize money. The extra money might encourage them to begin the process of professionalization, or encourage the founding of professional clubs. I think the money from the Canadian Cup competition might itself not be enough to encourage professionalization, but some business entrepreneurs might be interested in the potential for future growth.


quote:USL is less restrictive than MLS in terms of player signing and player development rights. If wealthy investors from say Hamilton or Kitchener-Waterloo (as an example) were to be attracted to the sport, I doubt TFC could keep them out if they joined the USL.

I don't think Toronto FC has the ability to restrict legally the founding of USL clubs in the southern Ontario area.

[Krammerhead]

quote:I don't think Toronto FC has the ability to restrict legally the founding of USL clubs in the southern Ontario area.

TFC would have about as much ability legally to restrict the founding of a USL franchise in the Southern Ontario area as they would a McDonalds franchise in the same area.

[tmcmurph]

"I think that adding the provincial league winners, CSL and PDL clubs would be a good idea for the new Canadian Cup, even if you play them in a qualifying round prior to the round involving the fully professional clubs"

I like the idea of having the various club leagues play off against each other first then the club champion gets entered into the playoffs with the MLS/USL teams.

I think all MLS & USL-1 teams should get an entry into the playoffs with only one club team making it. That would make the club qualifiers very intense and interesting. You don't want to dilute the playoffs with too many games. Having just one club team would keep the number of playoff games (and hence injuries) minimized.

It would be nice to see a club do what Havant & Waterlooville did in this year's FA Cup. It makes for a great story and publicity.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Lets see how this years tourney fares then think about adding PDL teams early on and draw one against the others. I like the idea of Ottawa upgrading if Montreal join MLS.

[coppercanuck]

I'm assuming this new Canadian Cup is an agreement between the Whitecaps. Impact and TFC. I also assume that the CSA will have zero control over it. Therefore the competition will not include anyone else....ever. It may become a joke. I used to be optimistic about these sorts of things but like PostmanPat said the MLS is rapidly reaching its maximum. Without an MLS2 in place, the whole system will collapse....wiki NASL for more info. ;)

[Toronto Ruffrider]

quote:Originally posted by coppercanuck

I'm assuming this new Canadian Cup is an agreement between the Whitecaps. Impact and TFC. I also assume that the CSA will have zero control over it. Therefore the competition will not include anyone else....ever. It may become a joke. I used to be optimistic about these sorts of things but like PostmanPat said the MLS is rapidly reaching its maximum. Without an MLS2 in place, the whole system will collapse....wiki NASL for more info. ;)


There are plenty of differences between MLS and the NASL, not the least of which is a bargain-basement salary cap of barely $2 million US. MLS does need to expand at a controlled pace, but the league is far from the flash-in-the-pan effect that was the NASL.

As for the Canada Cup, I look forward to this tournament. This competition may not be swamped by PDL, CSL and PCSL teams, but those sides would predictably lose to the three pro clubs. The important feature of this tournament is that it will determine which club represents Canada in the CONCACAF Champions League. To me, that is reason enough to get excited.

[RJB]

Is there anything preventing clubs other than the three pro teams from forcing there way into contention for the Champions League berth?

What about the CSL teams?

[Richard]

None of the communications from any of the three real professional clubs or the CSA has made any mention whatsoever of the CSL, or any other league for that matter, that I have seen.

[tmcmurph]

quote:Originally posted by Fort York Redcoat

Lets see how this years tourney fares then think about adding PDL teams early on and draw one against the others. I like the idea of Ottawa upgrading if Montreal join MLS.


I think this is a good opportunity to force the semi-pro/club teams to have a playoff between the CSL, PCSL, East etc etc. One of them and all the MLS/USL-1 teams.

I hope Ottawa (and Calgary, Edmonton) look at Vancouver and Montreal moving up to the MLS sometime in the next 5 years as an opportunity to get going on a USL-1 team. After the big 3 those are the next largest cities (1.2, 1.1 & 1.0 million).

[piltdownman]

quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead


quote:I don't think Toronto FC has the ability to restrict legally the founding of USL clubs in the southern Ontario area.

TFC would have about as much ability legally to restrict the founding of a USL franchise in the Southern Ontario area as they would a McDonalds franchise in the same area.


That would make sense ... but who knows what kind of deal MLSE has with the CSA. Not that it would really matter, I can't see a USL team hurting TFC.

[Blue and White Army]

Would be nice if the CSA could announce the fixtures. I'm heading out east in late spring, and could work around a Whitecaps match in Montreal or Toronto (if the fixtures are ever released...).

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph


quote:Originally posted by Fort York Redcoat

Lets see how this years tourney fares then think about adding PDL teams early on and draw one against the others. I like the idea of Ottawa upgrading if Montreal join MLS.


I think this is a good opportunity to force the semi-pro/club teams to have a playoff between the CSL, PCSL, East etc etc. One of them and all the MLS/USL-1 teams.

I hope Ottawa (and Calgary, Edmonton) look at Vancouver and Montreal moving up to the MLS sometime in the next 5 years as an opportunity to get going on a USL-1 team. After the big 3 those are the next largest cities (1.2, 1.1 & 1.0 million).


Would only work if the teams remained independent, not being part of a feeder system.

[speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

Would be nice if the CSA could announce the fixtures. I'm heading out east in late spring, and could work around a Whitecaps match in Montreal or Toronto (if the fixtures are ever released...).


Where out East?

Join us at a TFC match if the schedule works.

[Blue and White Army]

Providence, but I have to transfer somewhere. If the Whitecaps are in town, I'd love to be there. But yeah, it might be worth hitting up a TFC match regardless.

[CanadianSwede]

If you can find tickets. I tried to get to 3 games last year and couldn't get a single ticket.

[Blue and White Army]

Well, there's always the Montreal stadium opener (against the Whitecaps) on May 19th.

[themodelcitizen]

quote:Originally posted by CanadianSwede

If you can find tickets. I tried to get to 3 games last year and couldn't get a single ticket.


scalpers are usually present if a bit pricey. PM me when you have a game lined up as I usually go with a group of 15 or so season ticket holders and its rare that we can all go to every game.

[CanadianSwede]

Thanks tmc I will keep that in mind!

[Vancouver Fan]

Dates for Whitecaps home games announced.

Wed June 25th v Montreal
Wed July 9th v TFC

I'm not sure about the away games.