Canada vs USA - post game [R]

[Sigma]

Discuss here. The other thread was getting rather long, and I am sure there will be much to discuss.

[Derosario23]

No point discussing something must be done! This is disgraceful how is any other country besides usa and mexico to be recognized if the officiating is so bad! Unless they get all new referees I don't think our WCQ chances are very good!

[canucker]

I just can't believe this. Why does this always happen to us?

CONCACAF is a joke. I don't care if it's a fix or plain old incompetency, something has to change.

I hope we bitch and complain about this whereever we can, I'm tired of getting screwed.

[River City]

Was that Pipe on the field? And was Stalteri yelling at Pipe-looking guy or at Hejduk? I was too busy angrily explaining what just happened to some co-workers when I glimpsed the screen and saw the final bits of the feed.

[canadianfoot]

Anyone has a list of the REF for U-20? Any of them coming to town I swear shall mOOn them on National TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bc_soccer_fan]

If I was the CSA I'd tell CONCACAF to go F themselves.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Was that Pipe on the field? And was Stalteri yelling at Pipe-looking guy or at Hejduk? I was too busy angrily explaining what just happened to some co-workers when I glimpsed the screen and saw the final bits of the feed.


That was him - Gerry pointed it out on TV. I heard between my screams.

[zacRWE]

I hope Stally throws more than a water bottle at Arcundia next time, how 'bout a rock the size of a watermelon???

[Montreal_FC_fan]

CONCA-CRAP

I'm so sick and tired of this.

[canadianfoot]

The CSA should put in an OFFICIAL Protest I belive they only have a few hours to do so. ASK For a replay of the game AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I feel like biting my bulldog

[MikeF]

Completely shameful. The Ref should be barred from refereeing major CONCACAF games, indefinitely.

[Bxl Boy]

Don't forget to take the name of the ass-hole who played with his flag.
He's worse than the ref !
Concacrap has the worst refs on the world
Their linesmen are worse !

[thegoz]

I'm embarrassed for my country. I'm sickened by CONCACAF. You guys were robbed. That last goal was a good goal. I'm done watching this tournament. Screw the Final, I'll start watching again in a week when the Copa starts up. I've never felt so ashamed after a win then I'm feeling right now.

[cocu1012sent04]

Our boys played a great game anyway.
Nice shot by HUME!

We will be in South Africa!

[Rodway]

Funny part is, this was one of the best ref'd games I have ever seen in Conacaf up until the last 10 seconds. If that call happened to England, France, Brazil, etc..... it would be front page headlines for the next week and there would be national outrage. But this is Canada, so other then a quick mention on Sports Centre tomorrow (other then the people on this board) no one will care and most people probably won"t even hear about it.

[Derosario23]

Not without new referees we won't sorry dude it just won't happen

quote:Originally posted by cocu1012sent04

Our boys played a great game anyway.
Nice shot by HUME!

We will be in South Africa!

[sting]

quote:Originally posted by cocu1012sent04

Our boys played a great game anyway.
Nice shot by HUME!

We will be in South Africa!

Not if the ref's are allowed to decided games

[Glenn]

The CSA has to protest, and if CONCACAF does nothing, they should take it further. FIFA, a court of some kind... anything. Even if the reult stands, somebody has to pay for this bullsh#t.

[leaf12]

quote:Originally posted by orletafc

The CSA should put in an OFFICIAL Protest I belive they only have a few hours to do so. ASK For a replay of the game AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I feel like biting my bulldog

can an official protest change the outcome of the match?

[bc_soccer_fan]

I hope that piece of trash enjoys watching us on TV in 2010!

[Derosario23]

They cannot overturn the result? or can they make them replay the match

quote:Originally posted by Glenn

The CSA has to protest, and if CONCACAF does nothing, they should take it further. FIFA, a court of some kind... anything. Even if the reult stands, somebody has to pay for this bullsh#t.

[striker]

I just hope there is an official protest lodged by canada.

[Lord Bob]

There is one nice thing about this sort of thing: even the Americans I've talked to think this was bogus. There's no "controversy". There's no "debate". Everybody knows exactly what happened and exactly who's responsible. Fans of the minor CONCACAF countries such as Canada know better than anybody in the world what a corrupt, nepotistic, anti-competitive joke CONCACAF is, but if the only two countries CONCACAF and FIFA care about start getting upset, maybe someday something will happen.

[canadianfoot]

Guys lets send a prewritten protest to CONCACAF and the CSA(is they don't move their Asses) Anyone up to writing one up and then everyone email them to CSA/CONCACAF/ TSN & CBC

[canadianfoot]

I hope Guadeloupe KICKS Mexico out and the USA to the fuc...i..g moon togheter with the Ref and linesmen. Who is refing the other halffinal and the Final? when will we know?

[villus]

This is such bullsht. We score a valid tieing goal and get shafted. We should protest but either way we are going to get screwed we would have gone into OT with a man advantage and all the momentum looking to tackle the US the power in our region instead we get the shaft.

I dont care either way our boys showed heart and skill in this tournament. They faced adversity and came up spades, we came back from 2-0 down and fought the whole game. Deguz stepped up and has become the player everyone knew he was, Hutch did'nt play his best game today but showed well in the tourney, Dero brought his club form to the national team and everyone else played their asses off. We got shafted yes but at least these players will leave this tourney with a chip on their shoulder looking to come back hungry knowing what this team can do, honestly I think getting shafted could be great motivation for WCQ.

[wildguy27]

It is unfair that after working so hard as a team for more then 2 weeks they have to deal with that sort of thing.

[GAZZA]

I am at work in England & was trying to keep up with the in match thread. I assume it unfortunately ended up 1 - nil to the USA. it appears we were hard done by.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by Derosario23

They cannot overturn the result? or can they make them replay the match

quote:Originally posted by Glenn

The CSA has to protest, and if CONCACAF does nothing, they should take it further. FIFA, a court of some kind... anything. Even if the reult stands, somebody has to pay for this bullsh#t.



I can't think of an example where it's happened because of a blown call. If they do overturn the result, they open the floodgates. That's why I think we're out, and it's over. But Archundia can't referee another international match as long as he lives.

[The Ref]

Maricón Archundia is lucky this was not in South America. He would have been stoned.

[sting]

quote:Originally posted by Derosario23

They cannot overturn the result? or can they make them replay the match

quote:Originally posted by Glenn

The CSA has to protest, and if CONCACAF does nothing, they should take it further. FIFA, a court of some kind... anything. Even if the reult stands, somebody has to pay for this bullsh#t.


They replayed a world cup qualifier over a ref mistake. It was in
Asia. I believe it was over an offside call as well. I could be
mistaken as to the call.

[Lord Bob]

While we're bitching about the Mexican Bandit, I still believe that Onstad's foul that drew a penalty was every bit as bad as Keller's nigh-identical foul that didn't. I feel that very strongly. This has been rather eaten up in the far more egregious screwjob, but I feel the urge to say it anyway.


quote:Originally posted by villus

honestly I think getting shafted could be great motivation for WCQ.


Nice thing about this compared to the Honduran nightmare is that this time there is a tomorrow.

[Gaucho]

As a fan of soccer, this was just a horrendous way for a match to end. To make an incorrect subjective call that is unchangeable is one thing, but to miss an objective call in the final minute that ties the match is gut-wrenching. I was pretty sure that the call was going to be reversed and thought the ref was maybe pointing at midfield to indicate that a goal was scored. I was shocked when the reversal didn't come.

Losing on an incredible effort by the opposition is ok with me.

Losing on an unlucky play or bad mistake is hard to come to terms with but bearable.

But losing on an objective, reversible bad call sucks very bad.

Even though Canada is not my team, I feel very bad about the result.

Canada is owed some good karma and the way you guys played in the Gold Cup bodes well for WCQ.

[leaf12]

I know this may sound a little stupid, but FIFA should really consider have either:
A) A second referee on the field, kind of like how hockey has two refs.
B) Video challenges. The "Hand-of-God" (or something like that) and many other bogus calls could be made right. Why tamper with the outcome of game?

These guys in stripes need to stop determining the outcome of games.

Sad day for Canadian soccer... looks like the organizers got what they wanted, a US and soon-to-be Mexico final.

[Derosario23]

What makes you so sure he screwed us over before why not again?

quote:Originally posted by Glenn


quote:Originally posted by Derosario23

They cannot overturn the result? or can they make them replay the match

quote:Originally posted by Glenn

The CSA has to protest, and if CONCACAF does nothing, they should take it further. FIFA, a court of some kind... anything. Even if the reult stands, somebody has to pay for this bullsh#t.



I can't think of an example where it's happened because of a blown call. If they do overturn the result, they open the floodgates. That's why I think we're out, and it's over. But Archundia can't referee another international match as long as he lives.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by sting


quote:Originally posted by Derosario23

They cannot overturn the result? or can they make them replay the match

quote:Originally posted by Glenn

The CSA has to protest, and if CONCACAF does nothing, they should take it further. FIFA, a court of some kind... anything. Even if the reult stands, somebody has to pay for this bullsh#t.


They replayed a world cup qualifier over a ref mistake. It was in
Asia. I believe it was over an offside call as well. I could be
mistaken as to the call.


Really? Well, maybe there is hope. Of course, WCQ is a longer process, with more of a chance to replay matches. But if there's a precedent here, then the CSA has to push very hard. At the very least, CONCACAF may get rid of scum like Archundia for the next WCQ round.

[Dave]

The call was an outrage. No question. However, let's not blame the Americans. They played well, and they did not cause the bad call. In fact I suspect that many Americans will agree with us that the goal was good.

There MUST be an official protest to FIFA. CONCACAF will do nothing. This is the first test of the new CSA CEO's credibility. We must email the CSA tonight en masse, DEMANDING that this protest be launched. I don't expect any changes to the result... however this protest, if upheld, can lead to FIFA mandating a housecleaning of CONCACAF OFficiating in time for WCQ. Thus what we do now may directly influence our chances for WC2010. The letter we send to the CSA must be an open letter, and needs to be copied to all major media outlets by end of the day tomorrow, so that media pressure will force the CSA to act. We succeeded once before with a protest letter re the coaching hire. Let us act together in a just cause.

[Cheetah]

Agree with Rodway, it was a well reffed game until the AR blew the call at the end. An offside isn't necessarily negated, because a defender touches the ball. However, Hutchison didn't look like he was in an offside position to begin with and the defender appeared to direct the ball towards Hutchison (i.e., it didn't deflect off of him). Two reasons why the goal should have stood and we should be in extra time right now!

Nevertheless, a very positive run for Canada, which bodes well for WC 2010 qualifying.

[Jarrek]

%$(#%*($#%$)#%($#)(% #$)%)$#(%) (#$)(%#)$*$)!*@#)@($)@#%()*#)%($@#)(%#)%*^$%()@$#( $)#@!#)@*%R(EW)SGFI)D(G$)Q@#)($@)#($@

[Bxl Boy]

“FIFA has ordered a replay of a World Cup playoff between Uzbekistan and Bahrain after ruling that the referee erred in the first leg, Asian Football Confederation (AFC) said Tuesday.

The referee, Toshimitsu Yoshida from Japan, disallowed a penalty scored by Uzbekistan's Server Djeparov in the Sept. 3 match because defender Timur Kapadze invaded the box before the penalty was taken.

The referee then awarded a free kick to Bahrain but he should have ordered the penalty retaken, the Asian Football Confederation said in a statement on its Web site.

The Uzbeks won the game 1-0 on an early goal scored by veteran captain Mirdjalal Kasymov.

FIFA declared the match invalid and ordered a replay, the AFC said. ”

[trueviking]

the killer is that the americans would have played extra time with only 10 men, after the red card in the 90th minute...our chances would have been decent.

why does every CONCACAF tournament turn out this way for us?....is it just us i wonder?....it seems like it has to stop at some point, it is getting to be ridiculous...you can predict the outcome like clockwork...i cant believe it is coincidence anymore.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by Dave


There MUST be an official protest to FIFA. CONCACAF will do nothing. This is the first test of the new CSA CEO's credibility. We must email the CSA tonight en masse, DEMANDING that this protest be launched.

Actually, I tried that. Their web page is down. Hmm... Looks like whoever paid off Archundia paid off the CSA's web team, too.
:(

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by Dave

The call was an outrage. No question. However, let's not blame the Americans. They played well, and they did not cause the bad call. In fact I suspect that many Americans will agree with us that the goal was good.

There MUST be an official protest to FIFA. CONCACAF will do nothing. This is the first test of the new CSA CEO's credibility. We must email the CSA tonight en masse, DEMANDING that this protest be launched. I don't expect any changes to the result... however this protest, if upheld, can lead to FIFA mandating a housecleaning of CONCACAF OFficiating in time for WCQ. Thus what we do now may directly influence our chances for WC2010. The letter we send to the CSA must be an open letter, and needs to be copied to all major media outlets by end of the day tomorrow, so that media pressure will force the CSA to act. We succeeded once before with a protest letter re the coaching hire. Let us act together in a just cause.


Right on. Volunteers?

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by GlennThat's why I think we're out, and it's over. But Archundia can't referee another international match as long as he lives.


We're out. It's over.

He will. :(


FWIW, the Asian WCQ that was replayed was due to the referee awarding a free kick for the defending team after an attacking player encroached the box on a penalty kick, where the appropriate ruling would have been for a retake of the penalty.

[Stephen LaRose]

I took a look at the BigSoccer board:

1. They say the Mexican referee also ref'ed at the Guatemala-Canada game that knocked Canada out o the qualifying round for Germany 2006 True?

2. They're blaming the linesman from Surname for the blown call on the Hutch offside goal.

If that game was at Fort York, the Americans go home.

[MikeF]

Who do we e-mail?

[Derosario23]

Morgan Quarry!

quote:Originally posted by MikeF

Who do we e-mail?

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Stephen LaRose

I took a look at the BigSoccer board:

1. They say the Mexican referee also ref'ed at the Guatemala-Canada game that knocked Canada out o the qualifying round for Germany 2006 True?

2. They're blaming the linesman from Surname for the blown call on the Hutch offside goal.

If that game was at Fort York, the Americans go home.


It was Honduras, game two. Very Dodgy penalty given for Suazo and then took away an Occean goal a minute later.

[Gian-Luca]

We should protest this. There is absolutley no criteria that makes that final call the right one. It is as black and white as black & white gets.

If the appeal doesn't go through, let's join Oceania or Asia.

[sstackho]

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/news_story/?ID=211510

Offside call denies Canada Gold Cup Final
Associated Press

6/21/2007 9:24:44 PM

CHICAGO (AP) - After Frankie Hejduk and Landon Donovan scored, the United States nearly frittered away its lead and a spot in the CONCACAF Gold Cup final.

Hejduk, who missed last summer's World Cup with a knee injury, scored his first goal in almost seven years and Landon Donovan converted another penalty kick. Then the United States hung on for a 2-1 victory over Canada on Thursday night, getting help when an apparent tying goal in injury time was disallowed on a disputed offside call.

Hejduk will miss the final after picking up his second yellow card in as many games and Michael Bradley, the son of U.S. coach Bob Bradley, also will sit out the final after getting a red card in the 89th minute for a reckless tackle.

The defending champions, who are unbeaten in the tournament, play Mexico or Guadeloupe on Sunday.

Canada hasn't beaten the United States since 1985, a run of futility that stretched to 13 matches with Thursday night's loss. But the Maple Leafs not only were able to score a goal, their first in seven games against the Americans, but probably deserved another.



Iain Hume put a ball over the crossbar from 25 yards in the 75th minute. He was back to bother goalkeeper Kasey Keller a minute later. Dribbling into the box, he turned defender Carlos Bocanegra around and got the ball on his left foot. He took a hard shot to the far corner of the net, and Keller had no chance.

That will be little consolation to the Maple Leafs, especially after they thought they tied the game in the final minute of stoppage time. Atiba Hutchinson put a shot past Keller, but Mexican referee Benito Archundia waved the goal off, saying the Canadian was offside.

Replays showed the ball went off U.S. defender Oguchi Onyewu, meaning the goal should have counted. Canadian players were visibly irate, and they vehemently argued to no avail with Archundia, who seconds later blew the final whistle.

Canadian players and substitutes complained bitterly after the match. At one point, former Canadian Soccer Association chief operating officer Kevan Pipe - who is running the Chicago venue for CONCACAF - stepped in front of Canadian manager Morgan Quarry as he harangued the officials. Pipe was fired by the CSA last November.

[meteor]

same crap..different year. CONCACAF are nothing but a bunch of criminals. year in and year out it's the same nonsense. they fixed the tournament to have the US and Mexico in the final. it's a f ucking disgrace, and the sad thing is, they'll come up with some b ull**** explanation and nothing will be done.

the American and Central American soccer mafia run the whole rotten show..that's a fact. way to tun the hole tournament into a complete joke. Concacaf can go f uck themselves.

[Rodway]

quote:Originally posted by Stephen LaRose

I took a look at the BigSoccer board:

1. They say the Mexican referee also ref'ed at the Guatemala-Canada game that knocked Canada out o the qualifying round for Germany 2006 True?

2. They're blaming the linesman from Surname for the blown call on the Hutch offside goal.

If that game was at Fort York, the Americans go home.


Dobson mentioned earlier in the game that he had ref'd the WCQ game vs Guatemala and screwed us over. Which is why it was surprising that he was refing such a solid game tonight.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho
At one point, former Canadian Soccer Association chief operating officer Kevan Pipe - who is running the Chicago venue for CONCACAF - stepped in front of Canadian manager Morgan Quarry as he harangued the officials. Pipe was fired by the CSA last November.


We never should have fired that guy. I bet he set up the whole thing...

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by GAZZA

I am at work in England & was trying to keep up with the in match thread. I assume it unfortunately ended up 1 - nil to the USA. it appears we were hard done by.


It ended 2-1 for the US, even though each team scored two goals apiece.

[cndsoccer]

jack warner lining his pockets again!!!!

[Derosario23]

You just took the words out of my mouth its a bith to be a canada supporter. We have to take this **** all the time and I have a feeling it won't be the last time

quote:Originally posted by meteor

same crap..different year. CONCACAF are nothing but a bunch of criminals. year in and year out it's the same nonsense. they fixed the tournament to have the US and Mexico in the final. it's a f ucking disgrace, and the sad thing is, they'll come up with some b ull**** explanation and nothing will be done.

the American and Central American soccer mafia run the whole rotten show..that's a fact. way to tun the hole tournament into a complete joke. Concacaf can go f uck themselves.

[CanadasBest]

Morgan should have decked Pipe with a good solid Right...

Man we were screwed plain and simple...

But let's not overlook the facts here. The US played a far superior game in the first 45 minutes. Sure the 2 footed tackle on deGuzman should have been a Red Card, but they seriously out played us and shut us down.

Nash looked absolutely horrible today. He should have been subbed off after 45 mins in favour of Hume, which didn't happen until the 60 min mark.

Yes we were screwed by the ref, but we should never have been down 2 goals to 1 at that point...

[BearcatSA]

I'm surprised Pipe didn't get tuned by one our team staff members at the end.

[ken]

quote:Originally posted by GAZZA

I am at work in England & was trying to keep up with the in match thread. I assume it unfortunately ended up 1 - nil to the USA. it appears we were hard done by.


The US went up 2-0 in the first half on what was - as I understand it - a questionable penalty. Late in the 2nd half Canada is coming back, they score one, the US gets a red card for a tackle from behind on a break up the field. Canada is pressing even more, 4 minutes of extra time is added, at 4 minutes a ball is chipped to the edge of the box, Hutchinson is level or slightly behind the defender, the defender heads the ball to Hutchinson, he scores, ball enters net at 4:07 of extra time but is called back for offside. Replays announcers and even the USA board on big soccer are unanimous that it wasn't offside.

The Ref is from Mexico, playing in the other semi-final. Not only that he is the same ref who gave a phantom penalty against Canada three years ago to put the nail in the coffin of our last WC qualifying campaign. As well there is a history of Canada getting jobbed by Concacaf refing.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

Morgan should have decked Pipe with a good solid Right...

Man we were screwed plain and simple...

But let's not overlook the facts here. The US played a far superior game in the first 45 minutes. Sure the 2 footed tackle on deGuzman should have been a Red Card, but they seriously out played us and shut us down.

Nash looked absolutely horrible today. He should have been subbed off after 45 mins in favour of Hume, which didn't happen until the 60 min mark.

Yes we were screwed by the ref, but we should never have been down 2 goals to 1 at that point...

This doesn't have anything to do with getting arse raped by the ref. Why bother? The score was 2-2. If you want to decide the game by chances, write FIFA a memo.

[kidlibra]

If there is a FIFA office in Canada somewhere perhaps it is worth staging a rally to let them know that this can't happen again.

[Lord Bob]

quote:Originally posted by kidlibra:

If there is a FIFA office in Canada somewhere perhaps it is worth staging a rally to let them know that this can't happen again.
Why not? Canada is irrelevant to CONCACAF and to a lesser extent FIFA. For evidence, see the last 21 years of soccer history in this country. They couldn't care if we live or die.

[Bxl Boy]

Fifa boys will be there soon ;)
Blatter and co come in the next few days for the U20 World Cup
I think it will be a good place to show our unhappiness

[CanadasBest]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone


quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

Morgan should have decked Pipe with a good solid Right...

Man we were screwed plain and simple...

But let's not overlook the facts here. The US played a far superior game in the first 45 minutes. Sure the 2 footed tackle on deGuzman should have been a Red Card, but they seriously out played us and shut us down.

Nash looked absolutely horrible today. He should have been subbed off after 45 mins in favour of Hume, which didn't happen until the 60 min mark.

Yes we were screwed by the ref, but we should never have been down 2 goals to 1 at that point...

This doesn't have anything to do with getting arse raped by the ref. Why bother? The score was 2-2. If you want to decide the game by chances, write FIFA a memo.


So it's ok that we looked like crap most of the game? I'm not following you here...

[Niagara Hammer]

My 7 year old son has summed it up perfectly and i am quoting "f***ing ref". He said what I was thinking. He got his mouth washed out with soap. (by his mum)
Is there a bronze medal game?

[kidlibra]

quote:Why not? Canada is irrelevant to CONCACAF and to a lesser extent FIFA. For evidence, see the last 21 years of soccer history in this country. They couldn't care if we live or die

By doing nothing we let them know that we don't mind them not caring about us.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76


quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone


quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

Morgan should have decked Pipe with a good solid Right...

Man we were screwed plain and simple...

But let's not overlook the facts here. The US played a far superior game in the first 45 minutes. Sure the 2 footed tackle on deGuzman should have been a Red Card, but they seriously out played us and shut us down.

Nash looked absolutely horrible today. He should have been subbed off after 45 mins in favour of Hume, which didn't happen until the 60 min mark.

Yes we were screwed by the ref, but we should never have been down 2 goals to 1 at that point...

This doesn't have anything to do with getting arse raped by the ref. Why bother? The score was 2-2. If you want to decide the game by chances, write FIFA a memo.


So it's ok that we looked like crap most of the game? I'm not following you here...

The US took the first 45. Really the first 20 only. We took the rest, with a bit of a pause in the second half. And yes, if you're level on the scoresheet, you're level on the scoresheet. End of mother f ucking story.

[kidlibra]

quote:My 7 year old son has summed it up perfectly and i am quoting "f***ing ref". He said what I was thinking. He got his mouth washed out with soap. (by his mum)
Is there a bronze medal game?


Injustice is everywhere!


Poor kid.

[River City]

If this is the best, then this is what's really scary....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Archundia

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone


quote:Originally posted by gwallace76


quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone


quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

Morgan should have decked Pipe with a good solid Right...

Man we were screwed plain and simple...

But let's not overlook the facts here. The US played a far superior game in the first 45 minutes. Sure the 2 footed tackle on deGuzman should have been a Red Card, but they seriously out played us and shut us down.

Nash looked absolutely horrible today. He should have been subbed off after 45 mins in favour of Hume, which didn't happen until the 60 min mark.

Yes we were screwed by the ref, but we should never have been down 2 goals to 1 at that point...

This doesn't have anything to do with getting arse raped by the ref. Why bother? The score was 2-2. If you want to decide the game by chances, write FIFA a memo.


So it's ok that we looked like crap most of the game? I'm not following you here...

The US took the first 45. Really the first 20 only. We took the rest, with a bit of a pause in the second half. And yes, if you're level on the scoresheet, you're level on the scoresheet. End of mother f ucking story.


The game is 90 minutes plus injury time and the goals count the same no matter when there scored within that time.

[canucker]

I'm glad our players were pissed off, and even more glad that the higher-ups in the CSA are pissed off. Once our association stops being indifferent, maybe we can achieve something. And they need to be absolutely livid at CONCACAF for this and make it as obvious as possible to FIFA.

I don't expect the result to change, what's done is done, but the real injustice here will be if NOTHING in CONCACAF changes after this. And they can start by admitting their ref screwed up royally in this match.

I'm greating pissed.

[PortoMarco]

I don't post much, I do read a lot though. I felt that it was my obligation to outline just how pissed off I am right now. Livid.

[CoachRich]

Just saw the hightligts & a teenage CR & AR could have figured that one out!!!

Will be intereting if the new powers at CSA that be step up & officially write CONCACAF & FIFA. The team deserves their support for something so evident.

Btw the CSA web site is down so I hoping they are pi**ed as well:)

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by Niagara Hammer

Is there a bronze medal game?


No, there isn't.

Smart kid.

[kidlibra]

If anyone knows where I can dl some video highlights, please tell.

Thanks in advance

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by Bxl Boy

Fifa boys will be there soon ;)
Blatter and co come in the next few days for the U20 World Cup
I think it will be a good place to show our unhappiness


Agreed. There's been an anti-CSA protest at a Toronto hotel already. Let's make sure CONCACAF hears about this garbage in all six cities in the coming weeks. As long as the whole world's watching, we might as well point out that our region is corrupt and incompetant.

[dpetzz]

Hi Guys, first time posting on here but I always post on bigsoccer in the canada and referee sections...Just a few thoughts...

1. I thought the referee had a pretty good game. The blown call was the fault of an inexperienced AR. It sucks but the mexican ref probably wasn't in a position to overrule if you watch the replay. Remember this Mexican referee was the one who ref the world cup semi final, olympic semi and FIFA Club world championship final (2005) with canada's own Vergara as his AR. He's actually a pretty good ref when he has quality ARs with him. I think this is more a problem with concacaf not taking the best officials but rather trying to have officials from as many concacaf nations as possible. He won't be at the u-20....fifa released that list. He will actually be doing games at the copa america.

2. We should be very proud of how canada played..it can only get better with some of the players tied up with u-20 duty or missing out due to personal or club issues currently.

3. The real problem witnessed tonight is with CONCACAF. They need to start running this tournament more professionally. No more US as the only hosts, no more placing teams into groups for attendance reasons rather than a random draw and definitely start taking the best officials rather than any.

It may sound stupid but several top ARs that were selected for the gold cup have already left since they will be working the u-20 tourni, vergara (can), the two from the states, garwood from jamaica and the one from panama.

[Richard]

Nothing will change at CONCACAF. The big money comes when the USA plays Mexico.

[sstackho]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article.jsp?content=20070621_211605_4060

Gold heist: Canada rally denied

http://www.sportsnet.ca/images/daily/thu/canada_argue_hor.jpg
Canada's Atiba Hutchinson, left, argues with referee Benito Archundia
(AP)

Gold heist: Canada rally denied
June 21, 2007

CHICAGO (AP-CP) -- A controversial offside call denied Canada a tying goal in its CONCACAF Gold Cup semifinal, a 2-1 loss to the United States on Thursday.

Atiba Hutchinson put a shot past American keeper Kasey Keller in stoppage time, but Mexican referee Benito Archundia waved the goal off, Hutchinson was offside.

Replays showed the ball went off U.S. defender Oguchi Onyewu, and that Canadian attackers appeared to be even with the last American defender, meaning the goal should have counted. Canadian players were visibly irate, and they vehemently argued to no avail with Archundia, who seconds later blew the final whistle.

Canadian players and substitutes complained bitterly after the match. At one point, former Canadian Soccer Association chief operating officer Kevan Pipe -- who is running the Chicago venue for CONCACAF -- stepped in front of Canadian manager Morgan Quarry as he harangued the officials. Pipe was fired by the CSA last November.

It's not the first time Canada has been at odds with Archundia or members of his staff. The referee called two late fouls against Canada in a World Cup qualifier with Honduras on Sept. 4, 2004. Archundia awarded Honduras a late penalty kick which led to the game-tying goal. Then a potential go-ahead goal by Canadian forward Olivier Occean was negated by a second foul and the game ended 1-1. Canadian defender Mark Watson disputed both calls at the time.

After Frankie Hejduk and Landon Donovan scored to give the U.S. 2-0 lead, the Americans nearly nearly gave their spot in the final away. Canada was not only able to score a goal, its first in seven games against the Americans, but probably deserved another.

Iain Hume put a ball over the crossbar from 25 yards in the 75th minute. He was back to bother goalkeeper Kasey Keller a minute later. Dribbling into the box, he turned defender Carlos Bocanegra around and got the ball on his left foot. He took a hard shot to the far corner of the net, and Keller had no chance.

That goal will be little consolation to the Maple Leafs, especially after they thought they tied the game in the final minute of stoppage time.

The Americans can't have been happy with the finish, either. This was the second straight game they gave up a late goal -- Panama scored in the 84th minute in the quarter-finals.

And they'll have to play Sunday without Hejduk, who gives them energy and speed.

Hejduk, who turns 33 on Aug. 5, was on the initial U.S. roster for last summer's World Cup in Germany. But the day after the team was announced, he discovered he had torn ligaments in his knee and needed surgery. He still made the trip to Germany, but the closest he got to being on the team was hanging out at the hotel in Hamburg.

He didn't play for the U.S. team again until June 8, against Guatemala. But he's making up for all that lost time.

After struggling to finish several chances -- a recurring theme for the Americans lately -- Hejduk finally got the offence on track in the 39th minute.

Pablo Mastroeni collected the ball on the right side of the field after a set piece by DaMarcus Beasley. He passed across the field to Donovan, who tapped the ball back to into Hejduk's path at the top of the box.

Michael Bradley, the son of U.S. coach Bob Bradley, would have been in Hejduk's way, but the youngster dropped to the ground and Hejduk took a solid shot with his right foot. The ball hit the left post and caromed into the goal past a diving Paul Onstad.

Hejduk will miss the final after picking up his second yellow card in as many games. Bradley, also will sit out the final after getting a red card in the 89th minute for a reckless tackle.

The defending champions, who are unbeaten in the tournament, play Mexico or Guadeloupe on Sunday.

With 33 goals, Donovan moved within one of Eric Wynalda's U.S. career record. Kasey Keller played his 100th international game, matching Tony Meola's American mark for goalkeepers.

It was the 32-year-old Hejduk's first goal since June 11, 2000, against Mexico, and it sent him on a mad dash across the field. He slapped hands with coach Bob Bradley and the players on the bench, pumping his fists as the rests of his teammates mobbed him.

Seven minutes later, the Americans were celebrating again.

Onstad, who was starting because No. 1 goalie Greg Sutton is still feeling the effects of a concussion, tripped up Beasley on a breakaway in front of the goal. He was given a yellow card, and the referees awarded the Americans a penalty kick.

Donovan connected on a perfect shot, nestling the ball behind a diving Onstad. The team ran over to Beasley, who was still being attended to on the sideline.

Canada hasn't beaten the United States since 1985, a run of futility that stretched to 13 matches with Thursday night's loss.



Notes: Phoenix Suns star Steve Nash, brother of Canadian MF Martin Nash, was at the game. ... Donovan, Bocanegra and Jonathan Bornstein also picked up yellow cards.

[canadianfoot]

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Tho' your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone


YOU ARE OUR GOLDEN BOYS GUYS -- YOU ARE THE CHAMPIONS

[canadianfoot]

When you walk through a storm
Hold your head up high
And don't be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Tho' your dreams be tossed and blown
Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone
You'll never walk alone


YOU ARE OUR GOLDEN BOYS GUYS -- YOU ARE THE CHAMPIONS

[Sigma]

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/67/fullj.getty-fbl-concacaf-canada-usa_9_44_55_pm.jpg

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/eb/fullj.getty-74807100cc023_concacaf_gold_9_30_59_pm.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070622/capt.f97fa3f000b540e4866d0b077a54e71b.gold_cup_can ada_usa_ilnh110.jpg

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/21/fullj.getty-74807100cc019_concacaf_gold_9_27_20_pm.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070622/capt.98bc71937d8d476a9257816863ce7d82.gold_cup_can ada_usa_ilnh107.jpg

The last picture says it all.

[Sigma]

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/67/fullj.getty-fbl-concacaf-canada-usa_9_44_55_pm.jpg

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/eb/fullj.getty-74807100cc023_concacaf_gold_9_30_59_pm.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070622/capt.f97fa3f000b540e4866d0b077a54e71b.gold_cup_can ada_usa_ilnh110.jpg

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/21/fullj.getty-74807100cc019_concacaf_gold_9_27_20_pm.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070622/capt.98bc71937d8d476a9257816863ce7d82.gold_cup_can ada_usa_ilnh107.jpg

The last picture says it all.

[RJB]

Would love to see the video of this. In fact, highlights of the whole game would be great to see.

All in all a tough break. We shouldn't be surprised though. This is CONCACAF, and it's always been this way.

[Sigma]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

Would love to see the video of this. In fact, highlights of the whole game would be great to see.

All in all a tough break. We shouldn't be surprised though. This is CONCACAF, and it's always been this way.


A torrent will be posted on www.fbtz.com or something will be up on youtube in a few hours (probably).

[Winnipeg Fury]

CONCACAF is a complete joke. It doesn't matter if it's the men or the women, Canada gets robbed by bogus officiating.

Even the American media is stating we were robbed. We better file an official complaint and scream bloody murder.

[Vancouver Fan]

One of the postives to come out of the match was the improved play of Haniault and Hastings. I thought both looked quite confident and seem to have got used to one another.Because of this Dempsey looked like ****e.

Despite everything that happened the Canadians showed that they can beat the yanks if they get any kind of luck. We need a match against them in Canada.

[Soju]

This has to be a match fix to get US in the finals with Mexico. This is what we joked would happen and now it has. If Concacaf wanted to encourage a regional rivalry I think they've just done so. I ******* hate this American team now.

[GAZZA]

We know that we are better than joke officials & better than the yanks. Go Canucks.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by thegoz

I'm embarrassed for my country. I'm sickened by CONCACAF. You guys were robbed. That last goal was a good goal. I'm done watching this tournament. Screw the Final, I'll start watching again in a week when the Copa starts up. I've never felt so ashamed after a win then I'm feeling right now.


Nice of you to say thegoz but don't be embarrassed for your country, not over a soccer game.

Ya, we were ripped off but the USA didn't do it, CONCACAF did.

db

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Bxl Boy

Fifa boys will be there soon ;)
Blatter and co come in the next few days for the U20 World Cup
I think it will be a good place to show our unhappiness


That is an extremely good idea!

db

[redhat]

Good god what a tough game to swallow. To be denied a chance by a WRONG call
is just obscene.

Right now I'm watching Mexico-Guadeloupe to get my mind off the controversy,
but guess what they're taking about? HOW CANADA GOT ***KED in the previous
game!

In addition to sending emails to CONCACAF protesting the call, we should also
do one other thing: send emails to our players and coaches for playing well
in the whole tournament, and to the bitter end. I'm pretty proud of our boys.
And the Voyageurs even got a mention on GolTV.)

[Duane Rollins]

I'm normally a rational fan.

I would strangle the AR if he were standing beside me right now. Slowly.

I need a drink.

[Jon Que]

Wow, what a finish. The problem is when you are playing the US at home in their Gold cup, you just cannot go down 2-0 and expect to get any breaks. I actually left the room when we (tied it up), <celebrating> and came back to find the game was over and Canada had lost. I should of known. I thought the ref was actually pretty good for most of this game. Calling Donovan for the dive was great. The red card to jr was amazing. They actually have a good chance to qualify for SA if they can continue to play at this level and become an even better team (more games, practices together). Hume looked pretty fresh coming off the bench and looked hungry.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Good god what a tough game to swallow. To be denied a chance by a WRONG call
is just obscene.

Right now I'm watching Mexico-Guadeloupe to get my mind off the controversy,
but guess what they're taking about? HOW CANADA GOT ***KED in the previous
game!

In addition to sending emails to CONCACAF protesting the call, we should also
do one other thing: send emails to our players and coaches for playing well
in the whole tournament, and to the bitter end. I'm pretty proud of our boys.
And the Voyageurs even got a mention on GolTV.)


Great idea. Maybe we can do something for Hutch specifically to celebrate his goal that isn't being counted.

[john tv]

I had the very great honour to be invited by the Deguzman clan.One great family.That mother Deguzman is totally amazing and she really gets into our game. Bobby was totally p.. off and said it was a clear offside. Heck even the dummest referee would have let that play stand.Jonathan was quite calm and while watching the game CBC had a camera on him constantly he was being watched,but that did not stop him from being very unhappy as well. It is amazing to watch a family and a family so unique to see their son play.
Anyway driving home I really got very mad,realizing the effect this will have on our players,all that devotion and commitment it is so huge this thing and so much is at stake and that this American shid again.Brings back memories when we played against Brazil in the Olympics and this effen American referee blew for an offside after Gerry Gray score the winning goal. At that time I had a soccer show and the coach of our team was the late Bob Bearpark,we replayed that so called offside numerous times in slow motion and this was not an offside at all.
I went through my memory bank some more and cannot remember ever having seen this sort of stuff in Dutch or Dutch International soccer.This was so flagrant and so bad and so ........,anyway Bobby and Jonathan were very upset and will this help us with Jonathan ,this horrible Concacaf crap. This has to be investigated and if I were the US coach I would admit this was wrong, But knowing that US attitude forget it.
It is a shame a farce and another sample how the media will use this to make it look bad and our team is the victum.
Yes i called the papers and yes they were aware and even saw the game,This is a total disgrace and one of the worst things I have ever seen in soccer.

Bobby did say wait till you read the Voyageaurs,he could not wait.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I'm normally a rational fan.

I would strangle the AR if he were standing beside me right now. Slowly.

I need a drink.


Start with the AR and finish with that arrogant twit of a referee will you please?

db

[The Beaver]

To our boys:

You guys were fierce, never gave up, and played some damn fine football throughout this tournament. You make us bloody proud. Hold your heads high; keep your peckers up--you played with class and showed us--showed the world--that Canada is for real, that we are on the rise, and that we cannot be taken lightly.

Yes, you are champions!

[Splatypus]

What a way to go out....

We should not have left it so late though, I'd like to know why Hart waited so long to make some changes. In the second half we lost our shape in midfield and looked like **** till the last few minutes. Nash was standing around like a post for most of the second half and should have been subbed much earlier. Huthinson has a pretty poor game and pulling Gerba off made no sense, they should have taken Hastings off and dropped Hutch back leaving 3 strikers and Issey pushing forward.

[striker]

quote:Originally posted by john tv

I had the very great honour to be invited by the Deguzman clan.One great family.That mother Deguzman is totally amazing and she really gets into our game. Bobby was totally p.. off and said it was a clear offside. Heck even the dummest referee would have let that play stand.Jonathan was quite calm and while watching the game CBC had a camera on him constantly he was being watched,but that did not stop him from being very unhappy as well. It is amazing to watch a family and a family so unique to see their son play.
Anyway driving home I really got very mad,realizing the effect this will have on our players,all that devotion and commitment it is so huge this thing and so much is at stake and that this American shid again.Brings back memories when we played against Brazil in the Olympics and this effen American referee blew for an offside after Gerry Gray score the winning goal. At that time I had a soccer show and the coach of our team was the late Bob Bearpark,we replayed that so called offside numerous times in slow motion and this was not an offside at all.
I went through my memory bank some more and cannot remember ever having seen this sort of stuff in Dutch or Dutch International soccer.This was so flagrant and so bad and so ........,anyway Bobby and Jonathan were very upset and will this help us with Jonathan ,this horrible Concacaf crap. This has to be investigated and if I were the US coach I would admit this was wrong, But knowing that US attitude forget it.
It is a shame a farce and another sample how the media will use this to make it look bad and our team is the victum.
Yes i called the papers and yes they were aware and even saw the game,This is a total disgrace and one of the worst things I have ever seen in soccer.

Bobby did say wait till you read the Voyageaurs,he could not wait.


Is CBC doing a piece on De Guzman?

[Alex]

by the way the goal just made the play of the night on The Score Tonight on the Score, IT WASNT OFFSIDE EVEN IF the USA defender didnt touch it ATIBA was even with the defenders. Good on the Score for replaying that and showing the fairly large audience the program gets that we were robbed, they stated that in fact.

[mrpopulistfutebol]

quote:Originally posted by canucker

I just can't believe this. Why does this always happen to us?

CONCACAF is a joke. I don't care if it's a fix or plain old incompetency, something has to change.

I hope we bitch and complain about this whereever we can, I'm tired of getting screwed.


Simple, its CONCACRAP. That is all you need to know. Perhaps only the CONMEBOL region you would see the type of officating. You would never this in UEFA, AFC, or CAF.

Remember, it is CONCACRAP.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

One of the postives to come out of the match was the improved play of Haniault and Hastings. I thought both looked quite confident and seem to have got used to one another.Because of this Dempsey looked like ****e.


Haven't had the stomach to re-watch the match but on first impressions I thought they both did well. Pleased to see considering how maligned they were.

[MikeD]

I am so proud of this Canadian team. That comeback took a lot of heart and guts. They showed more resilience than any Canadian team I've ever seen. They showed that they can beat the Americans. Just wait until the Americans have to come up and play us on our field in World Cup qualifying - we'll destroy them.

A game-breaking wrong call like that can either crush a team or make them stronger, and it looked to me from the players' reactions that this one is going to make them stronger. They were angry, but not broken. They looked full of confidence and pride. Hastings was rallying the troops like a real leader - just for that (and his steadily improving play game-in and game-out at centre back) I'd have him on the World Cup qualifying squad if I was picking the team. And props to Stephen Hart for making that beeline from the sideline over the Stalteri to get between him and the officials. Stalteri looked like he was going to rip that bastard ref's throat out. Remember that multi-game suspension he got for throwing a water bottle after Archundia f#@%ed us over in World Cup qualifying?

[CanadasBest]

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/5991/2734820140058694687S600x600Q85.jpg

Time to bring my 2004 T-Shirt out of retirement... Ironically this t-shirt was made because of the same referee...

[Gian-Luca]

Full props to Richard Hastings - he actually showed he could be a legitimate centre-back option out there today.

The team played well, but it wasn't our best performance, even if good enough to get a result with semi-competent officiating. Atiba was a bit off at times, we looked nervous to start the match, and I think the US team looked less tired, probably because they rested so many players through their extremely light-weight first round group, whereas we could not afford to do so.

The only thing I would critique was that Hart left Nash out there for too long & Hume should have come out earlier. It's really a shame we didn't have Friend to put on as well as he would have been a handful and held the ball up a lot better with the US clogging the midfield.

[john tv]

quote:Originally posted by striker


quote:Originally posted by john tv

I had the very great honour to be invited by the Deguzman clan.One great family.That mother Deguzman is totally amazing and she really gets into our game. Bobby was totally p.. off and said it was a clear offside. Heck even the dummest referee would have let that play stand.Jonathan was quite calm and while watching the game CBC had a camera on him constantly he was being watched,but that did not stop him from being very unhappy as well. It is amazing to watch a family and a family so unique to see their son play.
Anyway driving home I really got very mad,realizing the effect this will have on our players,all that devotion and commitment it is so huge this thing and so much is at stake and that this American shid again.Brings back memories when we played against Brazil in the Olympics and this effen American referee blew for an offside after Gerry Gray score the winning goal. At that time I had a soccer show and the coach of our team was the late Bob Bearpark,we replayed that so called offside numerous times in slow motion and this was not an offside at all.
I went through my memory bank some more and cannot remember ever having seen this sort of stuff in Dutch or Dutch International soccer.This was so flagrant and so bad and so ........,anyway Bobby and Jonathan were very upset and will this help us with Jonathan ,this horrible Concacaf crap. This has to be investigated and if I were the US coach I would admit this was wrong, But knowing that US attitude forget it.
It is a shame a farce and another sample how the media will use this to make it look bad and our team is the victum.
Yes i called the papers and yes they were aware and even saw the game,This is a total disgrace and one of the worst things I have ever seen in soccer.

Bobby did say wait till you read the Voyageaurs,he could not wait.


Is CBC doing a piece on De Guzman?



Yes they are and from what I saw this is going to be a very major piece. They even went to Miami to interview Julian and I saw that Bobby was interviewed as well and quite lengthy to.Jonathan was being interviewed and when i spoke to the producer he knew all about him including thenfact that he was rated as no 9 in the world. Yes they had done their home work and it showed.This is going to be a very major piece on Canadian soccer.
These CBC peolpe are very serious about their involment in soccer and these guys showed up with about four people to do their piece,which is quite extensive.
I don't know when it will be shown but i am sure that you guys will pick this up.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by MikeD

I am so proud of this Canadian team. That comeback took a lot of heart and guts. They showed more resilience than any Canadian team I've ever seen. They showed that they can beat the Americans. Just wait until the Americans have to come up and play us on our field in World Cup qualifying - we'll destroy them.

A game-breaking wrong call like that can either crush a team or make them stronger, and it looked to me from the players' reactions that this one is going to make them stronger. They were angry, but not broken. They looked full of confidence and pride. Hastings was rallying the troops like a real leader - just for that (and his steadily improving play game-in and game-out at centre back) I'd have him on the World Cup qualifying squad if I was picking the team. And props to Stephen Hart for making that beeline from the sideline over the Stalteri to get between him and the officials. Stalteri looked like he was going to rip that bastard ref's throat out. Remember that multi-game suspension he got for throwing a water bottle after Archundia f#@%ed us over in World Cup qualifying?


I also give full props to the Canadian team for chasing those incompetent morons off the field

[AvroArrow]

Why does it always happen this way? How many times do I have to watch Canada pay for the crap officiating sent to tournaments by some minor Central American or Caribbean country?

To go out do to an official's incompetance drives me up the wall. If only screaming at your television could actually change the situation.

[CanadasBest]

quote:Originally posted by john tv


quote:Originally posted by striker


quote:Originally posted by john tv

I had the very great honour to be invited by the Deguzman clan.One great family.That mother Deguzman is totally amazing and she really gets into our game. Bobby was totally p.. off and said it was a clear offside. Heck even the dummest referee would have let that play stand.Jonathan was quite calm and while watching the game CBC had a camera on him constantly he was being watched,but that did not stop him from being very unhappy as well. It is amazing to watch a family and a family so unique to see their son play.
Anyway driving home I really got very mad,realizing the effect this will have on our players,all that devotion and commitment it is so huge this thing and so much is at stake and that this American shid again.Brings back memories when we played against Brazil in the Olympics and this effen American referee blew for an offside after Gerry Gray score the winning goal. At that time I had a soccer show and the coach of our team was the late Bob Bearpark,we replayed that so called offside numerous times in slow motion and this was not an offside at all.
I went through my memory bank some more and cannot remember ever having seen this sort of stuff in Dutch or Dutch International soccer.This was so flagrant and so bad and so ........,anyway Bobby and Jonathan were very upset and will this help us with Jonathan ,this horrible Concacaf crap. This has to be investigated and if I were the US coach I would admit this was wrong, But knowing that US attitude forget it.
It is a shame a farce and another sample how the media will use this to make it look bad and our team is the victum.
Yes i called the papers and yes they were aware and even saw the game,This is a total disgrace and one of the worst things I have ever seen in soccer.

Bobby did say wait till you read the Voyageaurs,he could not wait.


Is CBC doing a piece on De Guzman?



Yes they are and from what I saw this is going to be a very major piece. They even went to Miami to interview Julian and I saw that Bobby was interviewed as well and quite lengthy to.Jonathan was being interviewed and when i spoke to the producer he knew all about him including thenfact that he was rated as no 9 in the world. Yes they had done their home work and it showed.This is going to be a very major piece on Canadian soccer.
These CBC peolpe are very serious about their involment in soccer and these guys showed up with about four people to do their piece,which is quite extensive.
I don't know when it will be shown but i am sure that you guys will pick this up.


Did they sit him in a chair and tickle him with a feather until he agreed to play for Canada?

If not, what a waste of tax dollars...

[striker]

quote:Originally posted by john tv


quote:Originally posted by striker


quote:Originally posted by john tv

I had the very great honour to be invited by the Deguzman clan.One great family.That mother Deguzman is totally amazing and she really gets into our game. Bobby was totally p.. off and said it was a clear offside. Heck even the dummest referee would have let that play stand.Jonathan was quite calm and while watching the game CBC had a camera on him constantly he was being watched,but that did not stop him from being very unhappy as well. It is amazing to watch a family and a family so unique to see their son play.
Anyway driving home I really got very mad,realizing the effect this will have on our players,all that devotion and commitment it is so huge this thing and so much is at stake and that this American shid again.Brings back memories when we played against Brazil in the Olympics and this effen American referee blew for an offside after Gerry Gray score the winning goal. At that time I had a soccer show and the coach of our team was the late Bob Bearpark,we replayed that so called offside numerous times in slow motion and this was not an offside at all.
I went through my memory bank some more and cannot remember ever having seen this sort of stuff in Dutch or Dutch International soccer.This was so flagrant and so bad and so ........,anyway Bobby and Jonathan were very upset and will this help us with Jonathan ,this horrible Concacaf crap. This has to be investigated and if I were the US coach I would admit this was wrong, But knowing that US attitude forget it.
It is a shame a farce and another sample how the media will use this to make it look bad and our team is the victum.
Yes i called the papers and yes they were aware and even saw the game,This is a total disgrace and one of the worst things I have ever seen in soccer.

Bobby did say wait till you read the Voyageaurs,he could not wait.


Is CBC doing a piece on De Guzman?



Yes they are and from what I saw this is going to be a very major piece. They even went to Miami to interview Julian and I saw that Bobby was interviewed as well and quite lengthy to.Jonathan was being interviewed and when i spoke to the producer he knew all about him including thenfact that he was rated as no 9 in the world. Yes they had done their home work and it showed.This is going to be a very major piece on Canadian soccer.
These CBC peolpe are very serious about their involment in soccer and these guys showed up with about four people to do their piece,which is quite extensive.
I don't know when it will be shown but i am sure that you guys will pick this up.


very exciting news. I look forward to this piece.

[bc_soccer_fan]

Here is Archundia's wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Archundia

Even more reason to hate him, he's an f'ing lawyer. I guess he is used to screwing people over.

[ken]

Finally watched the end again, Hutchinson was on, his body was level with the defender and the defender's foot made it so the being level part didn't enter into it. Of the stuff while everybody was on the field the best was the assistant coach (don't know who) holding up two fingers and saying "that's twice you've f'd us" you don't have to be much of a lipreader to figure that one out.

[sstackho]

I need to see the replay again. I keep flipping channels like mad to try to find it.

How close was Hutch to being offside when the initial ball was played? My original thoughts were "not even close" (I thought the offside was called after the deflection), but I am reading on BigSoccer that it might have been quite close in fact, although Hutch was likely just onside.

Does anyone have access to a replay?

[sstackho]

Thanks Ken, you answered my question before it was even asked. Shame to hear it was a close play. Offside calls are blown all the time.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by john tv


Yes they are and from what I saw this is going to be a very major piece. They even went to Miami to interview Julian and I saw that Bobby was interviewed as well and quite lengthy to.Jonathan was being interviewed and when i spoke to the producer he knew all about him including thenfact that he was rated as no 9 in the world. Yes they had done their home work and it showed.This is going to be a very major piece on Canadian soccer.
These CBC peolpe are very serious about their involment in soccer and these guys showed up with about four people to do their piece,which is quite extensive.
I don't know when it will be shown but i am sure that you guys will pick this up.


My brother heard an interview with BdG on CBC radio in Victoria. His observation was that if Bobby had any influence over Jonathon, there was no way JdG2 would play for Canada. Did anyone else hear it?

Sorry, back on topic.

It was a pretty encouragnig game, screw job notwithstanding. Kind of thought the US was a bit better on the night, played a game that really showed their experience. Lots of Cards, all deserved trying to hammer our midfield at every turn and that was effective. The ball to Beasley resulting in the yellow kept our defensive line back on their heels and less abel to support the midfielders which helped with their hatchet job on our midfield. They caught a break, IMO, with Bocanegra getting away with a yellow, but really, they did what they had to do to win and you have to hope that we can learn from that.

[eastcoaster]

Being in Bangkok, I didn't get to see the game, but words can't explain how pissed I am. I knew this would happen. I knew it. CONCACAF is such a joke. Why can't we just pull an Australia and join a new federation. Hey, why not OCEANEA. They are down a team.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

I need to see the replay again. I keep flipping channels like mad to try to find it.

How close was Hutch to being offside when the initial ball was played? My original thoughts were "not even close" (I thought the offside was called after the deflection), but I am reading on BigSoccer that it might have been quite close in fact, although Hutch was likely just onside.

Does anyone have access to a replay?


Yep, I watched it several times ... and it was onside. We got
screwed: the players, the TV announcers (both Sportsnet and
GolTV), and us fans know it.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


The only thing I would critique was that Hart left Nash out there for too long & Hume should have come out earlier.

Agreed. Another ten minutes of positive football could have made the difference. Of course, it was a tie game, so Hart did get the job done, and we could have been robbed of the result earlier even if he had moved faster with the sub. But we do seem to wait to long to make changes.

Overall, this was a good away performance. With competant officiating, we'd have an away draw against our biggest rivals. Full marks to the lads on a well-played tournament and a great come-from-behind performance.

[Pawel]

What a bloody joke, sad for our players who played like monsters for the majority of the tournament. If we played for the WCQ like we played in this tourny I can see us in South Africa easily.

[sstackho]

I think the highlights are about to be on TSN.

[Alex]

OMG check the score highlights.... one of the canadian staff definitely held up two fingers and said "twice you F ED us" then you see Pipe come into the picture..... LOL

[Pawel]

$#%$^$%^#%

[sstackho]

Just saw the replay. FWIW, the linesman does not raise his flag until after the deflection off the American defender.

Hume tries to head the ball right before the American hits it. It doesn't look like Hume gets a touch to it, but he does try.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Alex

OMG check the score highlights.... one of the canadian staff definitely held up two fingers and said "twice you F ED us" then you see Pipe come into the picture..... LOL


Was that Morgan Quarry? Give 'em hell ... if this was the
United States being screwed, I'm sure they'd be up in arms too.

[Alex]

The guy was clean shaven with some grey hair on the sides, but he had dark hair mostly, the only guy on the Canadian staff I can recognize is Hart.

[sstackho]

The result of this match made my five-month-old baby cry.

From my yelling. :(

But then he smiled again. :) Someday soon, I hope to do the same.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho

The result of this match made my five-month-old baby cry.

From my yelling. :(

But then he smiled again. :) Someday soon, I hope to do the same.


Yeah, my cats have been angry at me all night for screaming and throwing things at the TV. It's always the innocents who get hurt when referees are total wankers...

[Vancouver Fan]

Hey,what about that goal from Hume anyway. Who else has been waiting for that moment?

[trueviking]

the interesting thing about this tournament is that the success of a national team has less to do with having the absolute best players but having the right players that gel as a team....looking at it, this was not a strong team for canada...with all of our players available at least half the line up would be different, but they still did as well or better than a team that included first rate players like mckenna, nsaliwa, radz, edgar, brennan, etc. probably would have.

the americans had essentially their world cup team on the pitch....cudos should go to this team for showing that there is some depth in canadian soccer today....still, i do wonder how the insertion of even a few of those guys would have helped...

the bright side is that we have shown that we can be a possession team that controls the play and has some offensive ability....thankfully gone are the days when allowing a single goal meant certain defeat.

as well, we capped a new young player in issey who seems to have some decent skills and a few of our other guys really stepped it up and have solidified our depth for the national team....most of these guys are young and will be the future of our team...a bright future for certain.

i thought stalteri was pretty invisible.

a great tournament with the typical heartbreaking result...it wouldnt be a canadian side if without an injustice to put us out...we should have expected it at some point...next time we should start a pool to decide when people think the ref will cost us a game.

[Glenn]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouver Fan

Hey,what about that goal from Hume anyway. Who else has been waiting for that moment?


Me, for one. I've been waiting for him to break through. I love his intensity and energy. That goal was sheer poetry. A little sidestep and a lovely shot. It's kind of getting set aside because of the piss-poor officiating, but Hume's strike was class. And we shouldn't forget that our resurgence started when he stepped on the pitch.

THAT'S OUR HUMIE!
CLAP CLAP! CLAP CLAP CLAP!

[Vancouver Fan]

Forrest on Donovan's 2nd half miss."That has to be the worst miss I've ever seen"

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Glenn
And we shouldn't forget that our resurgence started when he stepped on the pitch.

THAT'S OUR HUMIE!
CLAP CLAP! CLAP CLAP CLAP!



Don't forget he also saved a goal when he cleared one off the line.

[Reza]

Good game overall for Canada. Hard to deal with the call, but this was Gold cup afterall, so hopefully, we are due for a few breaks and good calls, come WCQ .


But the best part was that canada played with a lot more poise and cohesion, something that I had never seen from Canada before. So at least that's the positive coming from the tourney.

[sstackho]

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=ap-goldcup-canada-us&prov=ap&type=lgns

United States 2, Canada 1
By NANCY ARMOUR, AP National Writer
June 22, 2007

AP - Jun 21, 9:57 pm EDT

CHICAGO (AP) -- Canada thought it was a goal. The Americans said it was offside.

Fortunately for the Americans, the linesman and referee agreed with them.

Canada had a goal in the final minute of stoppage time waved off Thursday night, preserving the Americans' 2-1 victory and their spot in the CONCACAF Gold Cup final. Frankie Hejduk scored his first goal in almost seven years, and Landon Donovan converted yet another penalty kick for the winner.

"I thought he was offsides. But it doesn't matter," American goalkeeper Kasey Keller said. "The linesman made the call, so it's offsides."

But the wacky ending tainted what should have been a big victory for the Americans, who are trying to win their fourth Gold Cup title and second in a row. Keller played in his 100th international game, matching Tony Meola's American mark for goalkeepers. With 33 career goals, Donovan moved within one of Eric Wynalda's U.S. record.

The United States will play Mexico, a 1-0 winner over tiny Guadeloupe, in Sunday's final for a berth in the 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup in South Africa. The defending champion Americans will be without Hejduk and Michael Bradley, though. Hejduk picked up his second yellow card in as many games while Bradley, the son of U.S. coach Bob Bradley, was given a red card in the 89th minute for a reckless tackle.

"I think these young guys are realizing that we need to be up for every game," Hejduk said. "We've made it a little hard on ourselves by giving up late goals, but I think those guys are realizing how hard we need to play."

After second half sub Iain Hume scored in the 76th minute, the Canadians put even more pressure on Keller. In the final minute of stoppage time, Atiba Hutchinson got a shot past him, but Mexican referee Benito Archundia waved the goal off, saying the Canadian was offside.

Replays showed the ball went off U.S. defender Oguchi Onyewu, and that Canadian attackers appeared to be even with the last American defender, meaning the goal should have counted.

"Their player headed the ball down into the box and our player kicked it in," Canada coach Stephen Hart said. "If one of their players played the ball back, it's a back pass and it cannot be offsides. That's how I saw it."

Canada forward Dwayne DeRosario agreed.

"It was definitely a goal. No question," he said. "It's very frustrating."

Onyewu admitted heading the ball, but said he still thought Hutchinson was offside.

"I don't think it matters what I thought," he said. "The call was offsides."

Canada's players argue with referees after USA beat Canada, 2-1, during the Gold Cup Soccer game, Thursday, June 21, 2007, in Chicago.
AP - Jun 21, 9:28 pm EDT
More Photos
Canadian players vehemently argued to no avail with Archundia, who seconds later blew the final whistle.

The Americans are unbeaten in 13 matches against the Canadians, a stretch that dates back to 1985 and improved to 9-0-1 since Bradley replaced Bruce Arena as coach.

"We did things to put ourselves in that position, whether it was a bad call or not," Canadian goalie Patrick Onstad said. "We dug ourselves a hole."

The Americans have Hejduk and Donovan to thank for that.

Hejduk, who turns 33 on Aug. 5, was on the initial U.S. roster for last summer's World Cup. But the day after the team was announced, he discovered he had torn ligaments in his knee and needed surgery. He still made the trip to Germany, but the closest he got to being on the team was hanging out at the hotel in Hamburg.

He didn't play for the U.S. team again until June 7, against Guatemala. But he's making up for that lost time.

After struggling to finish several chances -- a recurring theme for the Americans lately -- Hejduk finally got the offense on track in the 39th minute.

Pablo Mastroeni collected the ball on the right side of the field after a set piece by DaMarcus Beasley. He passed across the field to Donovan, who tapped the ball back to into Hejduk's path at the top of the box.

Michael Bradley would have been in Hejduk's way, but the youngster dropped to the ground and Hejduk took a solid shot with his right foot. The ball hit the left post and caromed into the goal past a diving Onstad.

It was Hejduk's first goal since June 11, 2000, and it sent him on a mad dash across the field. He slapped hands with Bob Bradley and the players on the bench, pumping his fists as the rests of his teammates mobbed him.

"Frankie's played well in this tournament," the elder Bradley said. "When you have him on your team, you've got a great competitor. He pushes all the players around him."

Seven minutes later, the Americans were celebrating again.

Onstad, who was starting because No. 1 goalie Greg Sutton is still feeling the effects of a concussion, tripped up Beasley on a breakaway in front of the goal. He was given a yellow card, and the referees awarded the Americans a penalty kick.

Donovan connected on a perfect shot, nestling the ball behind a diving Onstad. The team ran over to Beasley, who was still being attended to on the sideline.

Notes

Phoenix Suns star Steve Nash, brother of Canadian MF Martin Nash, was at the game. ... Donovan, Bocanegra and Jonathan Bornstein also picked up yellow cards.

------

(sstackho here: I don't like Hart making comments that cloud the issue. You can be offside from a deflection. The point is that Hutch wasn't offside when the pass was made by the Canadian.)

[nash]

I don't understand why many of you guys are trash-talking the US team instead of just the refs. It's really rather pathetic to insult an entire team over something they didn't do.

Few things I'd like to point out about the match, from a US point of view:

1. That hard tackle in the first half where the guy flipped, should have definitely been a red card.
2. People that are claiming that Beasely wasn't fouled by the Canadian goalie are in dreamland, because that was 100% a foul.
3. The last goal should've count, for sure. I was looking forward to an extra-time match. Oh well :(

[georg]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho


quote:Originally posted by Niagara Hammer

Is there a bronze medal game?


No, there isn't.

Smart kid.


YES. FRIDAY

[Alex]

Wait, what? please don't toy with me, Ive already had a breakdown tonight.

[maccaliam]

"sstackho here: I don't like Hart making comments that cloud the issue. You can be offside from a deflection. The point is that Hutch wasn't offside when the pass was made by the Canadian."

I don't think Hart said anyhting that was incorrect. He said, "If one of their players played the ball back, it's a back pass and it cannot be offsides."

That is an accurate statement. It's like when Gerrard played the ball backwards and Henry scored in Euro 2004.

You are saying it was a deflection, Hart seems to feel it was played backwards... big difference.
As far as I know it, if it deflects off a player and sends a man in who was offside, I think he still is offside.
If the ball is played by a player (even if it wasn't where he wanted it to be played to) and it sends a man in who was offside, he is then ruled onside and play continues.

[Vancouver Fan]

Just noticed that Canada had a lot of support from the crowd after the dissallowed goal. By that point in the game the crowd was mostly Mexican. They cheered the goal. I heard some boos as the refs left the field. A bit ironic that we screwed by a Mexican but are shown support by the Mexican fans.

[jonovision]

I just watched in on tape delay and now I'm in such a rage I don't know how I'm going to get to bed. It did seem that the late-arriving Mexican fans were giving our boys some well-deserved support at the end.

Poor game from Stalteri, Nash didn't do much, I thought everyone else was pretty good.

Still, Archundia FU!KS US again!!

[hamiltonfan]

this really f*cken pisses me off...

[Kurosawa]

The worst finish possible to a great tournament by Canada, in a day or two all we will see from this Gold Cup will be positive.

[hamiltonfan]

the bright side is how good we looked in this tourny..and this games. i really hope that the CSA can put together a great group of friends before WCQ because with this team we can do it.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by hamiltonfan

this really f*cken pisses me off...

It hurts even more that the two US goals were scored by the biggest twats on the pitch!

[Kibby]

Oh wow check out
Soccer by Ives http://njmg.typepad.com/sbi/

--------------an excerpt--------
The call was bad.

The offside call that negated Canada's potential equalizing goal against the US team was wrong. The bad decision provided a disappointing ending to a rather exciting match. The United States won 2-1, but we'll never know what would have happened if the game had gone into overtime tied with Canada playing a man up.

Just to clarify, according to several Canada players, the linesman who made the decisive call told them that his ruling was that a Canadian player headed the ball down. As you know if you saw the match, Oguchi Onyewu headed the ball, not a Canadian player. Even if the call had been on the original pass the Canadian attackers were not offside anyway.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by Kibby
Just to clarify, according to several Canada players, the linesman who made the decisive call told them that his ruling was that a Canadian player headed the ball down. As you know if you saw the match, Oguchi Onyewu headed the ball, not a Canadian player.

I'd need to see it again (and I don't want to put myself through that for a while yet) but was there any Canadian player even close to getting a head on the ball? Within 10 yards of Onyewu?

[Kibby]

Hume was kinda in the area distance I didn't look for at the time.. maybe within 10 feet ;p

[Rujulus]

Great tourney by our lads - it was a pleasure to watch them.

Wasn't expecting that finish. Even though we've seen calls like that before, it stung. The number of questionable calls by CONCACAF refs that have significantly affected the outcome of big games like WCQ and the Gold Cup have me scratching my head and wondering if the fix is really in.

[pulsar]

I was watching the game at 72 here in Vancouver and was sitting amongst, beleieve it or not, FIFA OFFICIALS....here to inspect the stadiums etc....they could not believe it either...the american offical took no pleasure in the win....terrrible, terrible, terrible....the entire place was gutted. But that had to be the most exciting game i have seen in awhile and am so proud of our boys.

[Daniel]

From Archundia's Wiki page at around 2:00 AM EST.

"Besides being a referee, Benito is also a lawyer, economist and Douche."

[mcaout]

I like to think that the linesmen would have a hard time seeing the defender's touch and just reacts to Hutch being in an offside position. The Ref must be in a position to see the touch and then over rule the offside. I hope that they simply were out of position and made the wrong call rather then some type of plot. Still, the wrong call was made, end of story.

On the other hand, we saw a Canada team with a lot of ability give as good as they got from a full strength US team. We really need to get behind WCQ because on this showing we've every right to be there in SA as the others in our region.

[clamlinguine]

Anyone who says Archundia reffed a good game until the end is a SUCKER. The smart Latino refs are always fair until it looks like we could get a result. I have a question. Why did we ever agree to play a game with him as a ref again anyways?? His Honduras performance was shameless. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

IMO

[CoachRich]

Interesting comment from Grant Wahl of SI.com's Inside Soccer -
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/06/21/us.canada/index.html

Unimpressive
Despite win over Canada, U.S. needs to drop hammer
Posted: Thursday June 21, 2007 10:15PM; Updated: Thursday June 21, 2007 10:39PM

Five things we learned from the U.S.'s 2-1 Gold Cup semifinal win over Canada while confirming that The Fours in Boston is SI's Best Sports Bar in America (many thanks for your hospitality showing the game, guys):

1. If you're looking for referee conspiracies to ensure a U.S.-Mexico final, CONCACAF is providing its share of evidence. No, I don't really think the games are fixed. And no, I'm normally not one to bellyache about officiating, but the bogus offside call that erased Canada's last-minute equalizer was only the latest pebble on a pile of awful Gold Cup calls against teams not named the U.S. or Mexico. (The two regional heavyweights, which would ensure a huge gate on Sunday, haven't met in the Gold Cup since 1998.) Bad officiating takes place everywhere, but the number of butchered offside calls in this tournament has been shocking. At the very least, a Mexican referee shouldn't be working a game in which the winner likely will meet Mexico in the final (though let the record show that U.S. midfielder Michael Bradley deserved the red card that Benito Archundia gave him in the final minutes).

2. The U.S. still can't drop the hammer. I'll be the first person to acknowledge that the U.S. is the only one of the Gold Cup's four semifinalists not to have lost in the tournament. That said, the Americans continued their inability to put away decidedly weaker competition when they had their opponent on the ropes. All Landon Donovan had to do was one-time a picture-perfect DaMarcus Beasley pass into an empty net to give the Yanks a 3-0 lead early in the second half and seal Canada's fate. Instead, LanDo totally whiffed and the Canucks came back to throw even more tension into the final minutes than Panama did in the quarterfinals. All credit to Donovan for his sublime pass to Frankie Hejduk for the U.S.'s first goal and for converting yet another penalty, but the Americans won't be able to afford such missed opportunities in the final, not with their back line still struggling.

3. Clint Dempsey made more of an impact than you think. The man they call Deuce didn't end up in the scoreline, but he did the little things that led to the two U.S. goals. It was Dempsey whose work down the right side earned the free kick that led to the Americans' first goal. And it was Dempsey's I-see-everything pass that sprang Beasley on the run that earned the penalty which made it 2-0.

4. Experience does matter. Hejduk's goal -- an exquisite one-timer off Donovan's sweet pass to make it 1-0 -- came exactly three minutes after SI's NFL editor (who shall remain nameless) called me to bury the 32-year-old Hejduk's national-team career. "What's Hejduk doing out there?" yelled said editor. "He's a walking yellow card. Why not play [youngsters] Jonathan Spector or Frank Simek?" Hejduk still can't cross and he'll miss Sunday's final on a suspension for yellow cards, but he may indeed be turning into the U.S.'s version of Julio Franco, not least because he remains among the Yanks' top three fittest players. (Only one question, Frankie: We appreciated your second-half step-over, but where was the classic Rasta-man goal celebration dance?)

5. Argentina won't be messing around next Thursday against the United States. In case you're wondering, the Copa América won't be as watered-down as you might think. Case in point: Argentina, the U.S.'s opening-game opponent next Thursday, which is taking a roster that includes Lionel Messi, Hernán Crespo, Carlos Tévez, Javier Mascherano, Juan Román Riquelme, Fernando Gago, Diego Milito and Pablo Aimar. One thing I've always loved about the Argentines is their rampant patriotism, and when it comes to playing for their country you don't hear any namby-pamby excuses for sitting out.

[nolando]

Anybody played their last meaningful game for Canada?

Nash, for example? Hastings? Funny that it seems impossible to list Onstad here just yet. What a difference a couple of weeks makes...

[Grizzly]

I think we should be clear on one thing and that is this is not a case of incompetant CONCACAF officiating but rather one of biased, corrupt officiating. It is the unfairness of CONCACAF officiating not the quality of the officiating that has also hurt us in the past. In the other games we played in the tournament I think most people were fairly pleased by the reffing even though some were better than others. Yet even the poorer ones were equally poor to both sides so it was an even playing field.

Archundia is actually a very good ref as his World Cup performances show. He can ref a game very fairly and with few mistakes when he wants to. Thus, it is obvious that he is screwing us on purpose for whatever reason (orders from CONCACAF/Mexican federation/bribe/a Canadian screwed his wife).

[JPB]

Hart showed some tactical deftness in this game. I liked his substitutions -- the timing especially.

It helps that Hume made Hart look like a genious, too.

The USA came out fast and Canada withstood the first 10-15-minute onslaught. Then things evened-up with some excellent midfield battles.

Stalteri was bottled up down the rightside and yet he pressed forward several times -- especially in the beginning of the 2nd half. That horrible backpass was overshadowed as the worst play only by Donnavan's spectacular fanning on the ball. But, overall, Stalteri gets full points, I say, because he led from the rightback position even in the midfield bang-ups.

Hasting and Hainault stood up well against the USA strike force. The pace differential was obvious yet not decisive in terms of the goals score and the chances created. They also showed they had worked out the issue they previously had blocking off attackers and protecting Onstad. Jazic pretty much owned his sideline for huge chunks of the game. I enjoyed seeing him track back to close down the speedstars on the USA side. So, I say, full points to the backline defenders.

Ahh, those midfield battles made the game competitive. DeRosario and DeGuzman where clearly being targetted with those 3-man blitzes from the USA team. An excellent tactic that neutralized our midfield for large parts of the first half, especially. It was terrific to see Hutchinson make the difference, repeatedly, and I think Bernier demonstrated that he is more than a utility player. When Hume came on I was happy to see how the midfield players adjusted. For spells, DeRosario switched to the rightwing. DeGuzman circled around Hume which made Hume's direct play that more dangerous. So, midfield, full points.

With the exception of Nash, who played a good game but was a weak link. The USA team made him a target and, as anyone has ever had the privilege of playing under those circumstances can attest, that's more than a little difficult to cope with for as long as Nash did tonight. So Hart did the right thing when he subbed out Nash in the second half. Maybe a little earlier would have been better, but I'm quibbling there. Nash played hard, did his best, but fell short under the lazer targetting of the USA midfield. So, he gets full points for persevering, even if under the gun.

Gerba. Heroic. The man is the bomb. Full points all round.

One little bit of armchair coaching: I'd have put Lombardo on at some point for Bernier. By the middle of the second half Canada was turning the tide in the midfield and the USA where focussed on defending and counter attacks. But Lombardo is one heck of a ball-gatherer and he is menacing when he tracks back as a player who forces turnovers. And he can score, has pace, and stamina. What he lacks in experience could not have hurt the team tonight. However, Hart clearly decided that the attack would emphasize get balls to the feet of the strikers, rather than high crosses. That worked, I have to concede. So this really amounts to a quibble or a "what-if" afterthought. In other words, I say, full points to Hart for a good strategy and sound tactics at the outset and in adjustments through the match.

The USA team was very well coached tonight. Donnavan came to play -- even with that incredible missed opportunity to go 3-up. Beasley was on fire and, I think, would have shined in extratime. Dempsey was devious and very clever in his playmaking even if he lost most of his battles in midfield. Mastroeni was strong but often became a weak link in the USA lineup. He turned over the ball too many times, given the height of expectations before the game. Onyewu was a dissappointed even before the last minute of the game and his fumbled pass back that led to the disputed goal.

But the USA team did what champs do -- they eeked out a win even when not playing up to their potential. Their back four looked brittle and their offence did not really look polished in the shooting attempts. I think their coach's midfield tactics -- especially the 3-man blitzes -- won the game for them (apart from that tieing goal that was dissallowed). Full marks to the coach, a B grade for the rest of the team.

That's my take. It was an exciting match whose outcome was always in doubt from the openning kick-off. Even a two-goal lead looked uneasy. The high technical skill level was a real showcase for North American (non-Mexican) players. This was the best match of the tournie.

[frank]

What I do not understand is
how can a mexican referee refere a game where his own country still is in the competition?? When Guatemala, Mexico, US and Canada playing the half finals there shouldn´t be a referee from any of this participating countries.
When I see the picture, there you can see the arrogance in his face after canceling the equalizer.

[nolando]

Thanks, JPG! I enjoyed that brilliant analysis!

[PunjabiOil]

3rd time in the this decade has Canada been screwed by FIFA officials. The first was back in 2001, World Cup qualifer in Edmonton against Trindad and Tobago.

The 2nd time was the 2004 WC qualifer against Honduras in Edmonton

Today was the third time. CONCACAF wanted a US/MEXICO final, and they received it. A disgrace. Think Mick McGoo in soccer.

Just like the lack of media coverage. No mention on the Sports channels - tape-delayed games throughout the tournament, etc. Hell, for residents in the Pacific, the Seattle Mariners baseball game further tape delayed team Canada's game until 11:00 PST.

This team has a VERY good chance to qualify for the 2010 World Cup. The 2001 Gold Cup was pure fluke - riding on Craig Forrest. This team is legit - scoring goals, possession, and a wealth of young talent in the system.

The nation isn't paying any attention now, but once they qualify, people will jump on the bandwagon and act like they've been there since day 1.

[nolando]

video highlights on youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=w8Kt7eNSwYA

[kclee]

So Keller and Onyewu (and other Americans) think the AR made the right call despite the video evidence?! No class.

[Markus]

Didn't get off work till 2AM and had to watch my taping of the tape delay. It's now after 4am and I'm way too frustrated to sleep. I have no idea what to say, I feel just the same as I did after the honduras wcq game. I know this is in many ways a less important game but it doesn't make it any easier. There's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. Nothing I can do now but watch the sun come up on another day where the only people upset are those 11 and us few hundred. Couldn't be more proud of how the team played, great to see humie perform like we all knew he could.

[Can. in UK]

Like everyone else, I am still having a hard time digesting last night's events. As I mentioned in another post, it was like professional wrestling.

I have noticed the Julian de Guzman has added his 2 cents on his website.

I have sent him a message of support via his site & encourage everyone to do the same. The whole team was amazing but Julian was a cut above the rest IMO.

http://www.enblanquiazul.org/deguzman/index.php

[Gloucester in FLA]

quote:Originally posted by Alex

The guy was clean shaven with some grey hair on the sides, but he had dark hair mostly, the only guy on the Canadian staff I can recognize is Hart.


It had to be Victor Mendes, one of the assistants. Very feisty guy, that's for sure....I have had the opportunity to play against him (not too much fun), as well as the pleasure of having him as a teammate (much better)way back when I had hair, and his wasn't going grey!!

[MikeD]

quote:Originally posted by Can. in UK

Like everyone else, I am still having a hard time digesting last night's events. As I mentioned in another post, it was like professional wrestling.

I have noticed the Julian de Guzman has added his 2 cents on his website.

I have sent him a message of support via his site & encourage everyone to do the same. The whole team was amazing but Julian was a cut above the rest IMO.

http://www.enblanquiazul.org/deguzman/index.php


Thanks for posting this, I just sent Julian a quick message praising him and the team, and asking him to pass along my thanks and congratulations to his teammates as well for representing Canada so well. I also mentioned that I can't wait to cheer them on when they finally get to play at BMO field in Toronto.

[yankiboy]

I'm not even going to front like I'm going to read every post here on this thread. I'm not.

I'm a HARDCORE Sam's Army type of US fan. But even that won't allow me to feel any better this morning than I did last night when it actually happened. Or a few hours afterwards. I still keep arriving to the same place:

You Canucks got SCREWED last night. I'm not claiming a "fix" or "corruption". I'm claiming incompetence and a horrible lack of judgement.

The officiating was "subpar" to say the least:

Boca could have easily and justifiably been shown the RED after his completely undisciplined and dangerous challenge that sent DeGuzman flipping through the air.

The PK (still not convinced).

Of course, Hutchinson's disallowed goal. I've seen the replay at least 8 or 9 times now--that should NOT have been an offsides. My local boy Guch headed the ball, not a Canuck and Boca should have stepped up--he kept both the Canucks onside.

You guys were taking it to us. We wilted, again. Minimum, that game should have gone to OT. When I say "minimum", I do mean "MINIMUM". You guys haven't looked this dangerous in years. My brother travelled to CHI-town to support our boys last night and he said that Yanks in the stands were sweating bullets watching you guys overcome the adversity and the two goal deficit.

Sure, I want to see the US make the final. But in the spirit of sportsman, I want the game settled by the guys on the field who are paid a check to PLAY and not settled by the guys paid to OFFICIATE. Why a Mexican referee was asigned to ref that game when the could have used a Panamanian or a Jamaican, I can't understand. Why would CONCACAF even put themselves in that sort of position. How dumb can you be. That was an obvious mistep in my book.

I'm not even excited about us making it back to the Gold Cup final. I expect us to make it to the final. I don't expect it to be easy. I just expect us to handle our business. Last night, we didn't handle our business. US media is calling it like many people saw it last night. It doesn't matter if it is electronic, print, or TV media. It doesn't matter if it is English or Spanish language. The title of the article in my Washington Post this morning was "US Gets Big Assist To Slip Past Canada"... That was the Washington Post. Steve Goff, the reporter is one of the best soccer beat writers in the US.
Kinda says it all...

Keep your heads up Canucks! If you guys stop getting victimized by the officiating, I have no doubt that you guys can qualify for South Africa if you play like you did in this tournament.

BIG UPS TO CANADA! BIG UPS TO THE VOYAGEURS!

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by maccaliam

"sstackho here: I don't like Hart making comments that cloud the issue. You can be offside from a deflection. The point is that Hutch wasn't offside when the pass was made by the Canadian."

I don't think Hart said anyhting that was incorrect. He said, "If one of their players played the ball back, it's a back pass and it cannot be offsides."

That is an accurate statement. It's like when Gerrard played the ball backwards and Henry scored in Euro 2004.

You are saying it was a deflection, Hart seems to feel it was played backwards... big difference.
As far as I know it, if it deflects off a player and sends a man in who was offside, I think he still is offside.
If the ball is played by a player (even if it wasn't where he wanted it to be played to) and it sends a man in who was offside, he is then ruled onside and play continues.


I agree with you on your analysis of the rules.

I disagree with Hart in thinking it was an intentional back-pass by the American.

I notice that the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/21/AR2007062102429.html?sub=AR) article quotes Hart as saying "You cannot be offside if it is played by the opponent" - which is unclear and unfortunate.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

The team played well, but it wasn't our best performance, even if good enough to get a result with semi-competent officiating. Atiba was a bit off at times, we looked nervous to start the match, and I think the US team looked less tired, probably because they rested so many players through their extremely light-weight first round group, whereas we could not afford to do so.

The only thing I would critique was that Hart left Nash out there for too long & Hume should have come out earlier. It's really a shame we didn't have Friend to put on as well as he would have been a handful and held the ball up a lot better with the US clogging the midfield.


Well i gotta agree regarding Nash. If we forget about the crap at that occured in the dying seconds, and look at the rest of the game and especially in the first half, the Americans were firmly in control in the MF; winning all the 50-50 balls, making right decsions, and very decisive on their ball distribution. Almost as if they were playing with an extra man on the pitch. This was exactly what I recall from our last meeting against them at the GC. For someone like Hart and mitchell, the beauty of these kind of games is that, from a talent evaluation standpoint, you get a much clearer picture of who can cut it against these guys and who cant. We can see that we have a core of talent which is on par with anybody in the region but beyond that, there are some question marks. Specifically, guys who are decent players but not international quality.

One more unrelated point, Stalteri has never looked the same to me since I started seeing play on the back line.

[gator]

First off I must say I am so proud of the way our boys played! I think we are really starting to develop some depth in the squad! The center backs were very good last night, thought Stalteri didn't have his best game though! Now the refreeing: of course we were absolutely hosed! That guy should never ref a Canada game again! Watching the hilites just makes it worse! The challenge on deGuzman was a straight red card, no ifs, ands or buts about it! Yankiboy, that was a classy post by you, I do think it was a legit penalty call though, it was totally unecessary though! I can't add any more that hasn't been said about the offside call at the end! Overall though I think we have to be so proud of this team and the possesion soccer they showed us! What a goal by Hume, and a nice clearance off the line! Let's keep our heads up, the future is bright!

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by yankiboy





You Canucks got SCREWED last night. I'm not claiming a "fix" or "corruption". I'm claiming incompetence and a horrible lack of judgement.



You guys ( you and Crazy Yank) are just being just too nice. Yes, the call was wrong and the result COULD/SHOULD have been different. But its not as if you guys didn't play well enough to win. To be honnest, after the first half, A canadian supporter could have been excused for wanted to change channell. The quality was that good from the Yanks

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick
[
Well i gotta agree regarding Nash. If we forget about the crap at that occured in the dying seconds, and look at the rest of the game and especially in the first half, the Americans were firmly in control in the MF; winning all the 50-50 balls, making right decsions, and very decisive on their ball distribution.

I think that was the case for the first half of the second half, and maybe the first five minutes of the first half, but I don't agree otherwise. Canada was taking it to the US in the first half like we haven't seen them do to them in some time until that first goal went in. Regardless of the dubious officiating in the first half (and I'm not referring to the US penalty, that was the right call) Canada had a shot that hit the post & stayed out. The US had a shot that hit the post & went in. It so easily could have been us that was ahead at the end of the first half.

Once Nash was taken out & replaced with Hume, the game evened up again & eventually swung in our favour. Unfortunately the officiating swung the game ultimately in their favour.

[MikeD]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick


quote:Originally posted by yankiboy





You Canucks got SCREWED last night. I'm not claiming a "fix" or "corruption". I'm claiming incompetence and a horrible lack of judgement.



You guys ( you and Crazy Yank) are just being just too nice. Yes, the call was wrong and the result COULD/SHOULD have been different. But its not as if you guys didn't play well enough to win. To be honnest, after the first half, A canadian supporter could have been excused for wanted to change channell. The quality was that good from the Yanks


True, the Americans did play well enough to win if they'd finished their chances. But the game is 90 minutes and I think a draw and extra time would have been the fair result. (And you have to like Canada's chances in extra time with a man advantage to work with and the US out of substitutions...)

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick



You guys ( you and Crazy Yank) are just being just too nice. Yes, the call was wrong and the result COULD/SHOULD have been different. But its not as if you guys didn't play well enough to win. To be honnest, after the first half, A canadian supporter could have been excused for wanted to change channell. The quality was that good from the Yanks


The americans played a high risk high reward game which consisted of running their asses off and hammering our midfielders. By 75 minutes they were gassed. They caught a break when Boca was not sent off, and another when Hutchinson's goal was disallowed. The second goal changed the complexion of the game in that our defenders were reluctant to come up as far to support our midfielders which was the single biggest reason the Amercians were able to dominate the first 25-30 minutes of the second half. Our Midfield was left isolated and the Americans had their way with them. When the combination of Canada having to push forward and the americans having little left in the tank, Canada took the game to them.

The Americans took their chances nicely, could have put us away with the back pass gaffe, showed tehy were a bit more organized and familiar with each other, but the biggest difference that they were given two get out of jail free cards. Well that, and the fact that they are much more experienced and know how to play the "gray" side of the game better then us.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by JPB

One little bit of armchair coaching: I'd have put Lombardo on at some point for Bernier. By the middle of the second half Canada was turning the tide in the midfield and the USA where focussed on defending and counter attacks. But Lombardo is one heck of a ball-gatherer and he is menacing when he tracks back as a player who forces turnovers. And he can score, has pace, and stamina. What he lacks in experience could not have hurt the team tonight.

That will probably be a good move for the future, but Lombardo wasn't with the Gold Cup squad, he's been with TFC & the U20's all this time.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon


quote:Originally posted by Free kick



You guys ( you and Crazy Yank) are just being just too nice. Yes, the call was wrong and the result COULD/SHOULD have been different. But its not as if you guys didn't play well enough to win. To be honnest, after the first half, A canadian supporter could have been excused for wanted to change channell. The quality was that good from the Yanks


The americans played a high risk high reward game which consisted of running their asses off and hammering our midfielders. By 75 minutes they were gassed. They caught a break when Boca was not sent off, and another when Hutchinson's goal was disallowed. The second goal changed the complexion of the game in that our defenders were reluctant to come up as far to support our midfielders which was the single biggest reason the Amercians were able to dominate the first 25-30 minutes of the second half. Our Midfield was left isolated and the Americans had their way with them. When the combination of Canada having to push forward and the americans having little left in the tank, Canada took the game to them.

The Americans took their chances nicely, could have put us away with the back pass gaffe, showed tehy were a bit more organized and familiar with each other, but the biggest difference that they were given two get out of jail free cards. Well that, and the fact that they are much more experienced and know how to play the "gray" side of the game better then us.


I would say that's a fair assessment. By hammering our MF they ended up with more cautions.

[Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Thanks, JPG! I enjoyed that brilliant analysis!


Just want to chime in too and agree, liked that a lot, especially since noone here is into doing a serious analysis. I thought when we pushed we did well, and we pushed with patience which I liked, after getting past that first rush. Which is why going down 2-0 late 1st half like that was terrible, usually a psychological downer.

The weak part of the game was the time it took Hart to put Hume on 2nd half, we wanted to do something but the States were ready to counter and we were confused.

I thought Bernier was out of position, but even then he got into the mix, drew a yellow from his marker. Playing in NOrway you see the style, they play into space instead of onto the foot, the way it was once in England, maybe still is in lower divisions. His moving to a better league will improve us.

Have to say a collective "we were wrong" to players like Onstad and Hastings, who nobody here, or with very few exceptions in Hastings' case, had in the mix. We were mostly wrong, these guys were so solid. And Nash too. Perhaps he was a personal bet on the part of Hart, but he showed well, he was not really out of place, give him credit too. I will be always grateful to these three especially as I think it is unlikely they will figure so importantly for us in the future, if at all.

Finally, De Guzman, who is a utility player mostly defensively at Depor, and very disciplined tactically, for us was a veritable midfield general, with freedom to move and choose. It was odd to see how he stepped up, I thought he just took on responsibility everywhere. And they keyed him, meaning they tried to take him out of the game, first Bocanegra, then Bradley. When you have a team that is on paper superior focussing on one of yours and trying to injure him to get him out of the picture, well then you know you are up against a scum rival, and you have a jewel of a player with you.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


quote:Originally posted by Free kick
[
Well i gotta agree regarding Nash. If we forget about the crap at that occured in the dying seconds, and look at the rest of the game and especially in the first half, the Americans were firmly in control in the MF; winning all the 50-50 balls, making right decsions, and very decisive on their ball distribution.

I think that was the case for the first half of the second half, and maybe the first five minutes of the first half, but I don't agree otherwise. Canada was taking it to the US in the first half like we haven't seen them do to them in some time until that first goal went in. Regardless of the dubious officiating in the first half (and I'm not referring to the US penalty, that was the right call) Canada had a shot that hit the post & stayed out. The US had a shot that hit the post & went in. It so easily could have been us that was ahead at the end of the first half.

Once Nash was taken out & replaced with Hume, the game evened up again & eventually swung in our favour. Unfortunately the officiating swung the game ultimately in their favour.


If there is one thing that I would like to see is to have our outside defenders support our offense much better. This is another deja VU from the last time that we faced them in the GC in 2001 ( that game that went to penalties). This is why I am wondering if Stateri might not have been more efective in a MF role, playing in Nash's spot for example. I always thought that Nash's forte was the quality of his passes, but all I saw from him in that game was wasted balls.

[canso]

What's the point of trying to compete? He's a good ref, he knows better, he saw the play and called the goal back because he was told to keep Canada out of the final.

Those Americans who feel ashamed, should. Their team is a joke and a disgrace. Hang down your heads.

I am taking solace in the fact that I am Canadian and I don't dive, and I don't cheat and I can hold my head high because my team reflects my ideals (except for that hilarious bit of playacting by Iain Hume!)[:I]

Winning without honour is not winning.

[sstackho]

Canada coach slates Gold Cup referee selection
By Dan Shalin
396 words
22 June 2007
00:55
Reuters News
English
(c) 2007 Reuters Limited

(updates with more quotes after second semi)

CHICAGO, June 21 (Reuters) - Canada coach Stephen Hart slammed the selection of a Mexican referee to officiate Thursday's Gold Cup semi-final defeat to the United States after his team had a stoppage time equaliser disallowed.

Two goals down at halftime, Canada got one back in the 76th minute, and four minutes into injury time Atiba Hutchinson found the net only for Benito Archundia to rule it out for offside.

The Canadians claimed the ball had deflected off the head of American defender Oguchi Onyewu and television replays supported that view.

Hart said the choice of Archundia was inappropriate given Mexico were playing Guadeloupe in the other semi-final of the tournament for nations of North and Central America and the Caribbean.

"I think it's the only confederation in the world that will do that," he told reporters.

American coach Bob Bradley refused to be drawn into the controversy even though his son Michael was dismissed in the 89th minute and will miss Sunday's final against Mexico.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I think we should be clear on one thing and that is this is not a case of incompetant CONCACAF officiating but rather one of biased, corrupt officiating. It is the unfairness of CONCACAF officiating not the quality of the officiating that has also hurt us in the past. In the other games we played in the tournament I think most people were fairly pleased by the reffing even though some were better than others. Yet even the poorer ones were equally poor to both sides so it was an even playing field.

Archundia is actually a very good ref as his World Cup performances show. He can ref a game very fairly and with few mistakes when he wants to. Thus, it is obvious that he is screwing us on purpose for whatever reason (orders from CONCACAF/Mexican federation/bribe/a Canadian screwed his wife).


Comon!!!

First, it's the AR who made the bad call not the CR.

Second, if that was a case of corruption you would have more decisions going the US way like a phantom PK, 1 min of added time or something like that.

That was just a case of a bad call by the AR who was not even in a good position to make the proper call (he's at least 3 meters higher than the last defender...). I just don't see how we can attack Archundia for this one (Honduras 2004 is a different story)?

It's unfortunate we had to go out that way but I'm still proud of this team and coaches. They played very well most of the tournament and things are looking good for the future. I hope some of the no-show will take notice in some lesser known players performances and will start answering the calls, starting August 22 in Iceland.

[Gian-Luca]

This article also has some quotes from Hart:

"US in Final, with Controversy"

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?id=325020

[Gian-Luca]

And another:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/439357,CST-SPT-cup22.article

By the way, does anybody else not think that the second replay angle shown by Sportsnet shows that even if Prima Donovan had made contact with the ball, he would have missed the net by about 5 feet?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


quote:Originally posted by nolando

Thanks, JPG! I enjoyed that brilliant analysis!


Just want to chime in too and agree, liked that a lot, especially since noone here is into doing a serious analysis. I thought when we pushed we did well, and we pushed with patience which I liked, after getting past that first rush. Which is why going down 2-0 late 1st half like that was terrible, usually a psychological downer.

The weak part of the game was the time it took Hart to put Hume on 2nd half, we wanted to do something but the States were ready to counter and we were confused.

I thought Bernier was out of position, but even then he got into the mix, drew a yellow from his marker. Playing in NOrway you see the style, they play into space instead of onto the foot, the way it was once in England, maybe still is in lower divisions. His moving to a better league will improve us.

Have to say a collective "we were wrong" to players like Onstad and Hastings, who nobody here, or with very few exceptions in Hastings' case, had in the mix. We were mostly wrong, these guys were so solid. And Nash too. Perhaps he was a personal bet on the part of Hart, but he showed well, he was not really out of place, give him credit too. I will be always grateful to these three especially as I think it is unlikely they will figure so importantly for us in the future, if at all.

Finally, De Guzman, who is a utility player mostly defensively at Depor, and very disciplined tactically, for us was a veritable midfield general, with freedom to move and choose. It was odd to see how he stepped up, I thought he just took on responsibility everywhere. And they keyed him, meaning they tried to take him out of the game, first Bocanegra, then Bradley. When you have a team that is on paper superior focussing on one of yours and trying to injure him to get him out of the picture, well then you know you are up against a scum rival, and you have a jewel of a player with you.




Well I agree that JDG does look like a MF general for us. But other than that, I dont follow you. Bernier out of position? Where would you have him play? AS long as I can remember, I dont think that he has ever played anywhere else unless you want to put him up front but he has never been productive enough ( scoring-wise) to be a striker.. he needs to get to a better league. Some of the other players that you mentioned like Nash, well he looks good occasionally in some matches but what I see that that some of our players performances tail off considerably more than others when the quality of opponent increases. What this proves to me is that the quality of MLS is better than what many ever imagined

[CanadasBest]

quote:Originally posted by sstackho


quote:Originally posted by maccaliam

"sstackho here: I don't like Hart making comments that cloud the issue. You can be offside from a deflection. The point is that Hutch wasn't offside when the pass was made by the Canadian."

I don't think Hart said anyhting that was incorrect. He said, "If one of their players played the ball back, it's a back pass and it cannot be offsides."

That is an accurate statement. It's like when Gerrard played the ball backwards and Henry scored in Euro 2004.

You are saying it was a deflection, Hart seems to feel it was played backwards... big difference.
As far as I know it, if it deflects off a player and sends a man in who was offside, I think he still is offside.
If the ball is played by a player (even if it wasn't where he wanted it to be played to) and it sends a man in who was offside, he is then ruled onside and play continues.


I agree with you on your analysis of the rules.

I disagree with Hart in thinking it was an intentional back-pass by the American.

I notice that the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/21/AR2007062102429.html?sub=AR) article quotes Hart as saying "You cannot be offside if it is played by the opponent" - which is unclear and unfortunate.


How can anyone classify a headed ball as a deflection?? The ball didn't smack him in the side of the face. He made an attempt to play it. It was a poor attempt, but it was a play nonetheless and not a deflection. I think Hart's comments were spot on.

[Gian-Luca]

The American Moronic Writer of the Night Award goes to this twit:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/columnists/tobias_xavier_lopez/story/145499.html

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76


How can anyone classify a headed ball as a deflection?? The ball didn't smack him in the side of the face. He made an attempt to play it. It was a poor attempt, but it was a play nonetheless and not a deflection. I think Hart's comments were spot on.


That's how I saw it too. It was a badly played back pass.

I don't remember KK reaction to Atiba's shot but some posters on BS are suggesting that he stopped playing before the goal. Can someone confirm if that's true?

[Gian-Luca]

This article is probably the best of the lot:

U.S. Gets Big Assist To Slip Past Canada

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/21/AR2007062102429.html

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I don't remember KK reaction to Atiba's shot but some posters on BS are suggesting that he stopped playing before the goal. Can someone confirm if that's true?


It isn't true. He came out to try to make the save & the two US defenders chased after Atiba in vain. The only player who looked like he stopped playing (probably because he saw the linesman's flag) was DeRo.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


quote:Originally posted by loyola

I don't remember KK reaction to Atiba's shot but some posters on BS are suggesting that he stopped playing before the goal. Can someone confirm if that's true?


It isn't true. He came out to try to make the save & the two US defenders chased after Atiba in vain. The only player who looked like he stopped playing (probably because he saw the linesman's flag) was DeRo.


Yup, its bogus, just like the claims of 5 minutes of stopage time. I'd say the majority of american posters on Big Soccer are acceptnig that they caught a break. The fanboy/spazzos types are trying to re-write reality.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by loyola


Second, if that was a case of corruption you would have more decisions going the US way like a phantom PK, 1 min of added time or something like that.


Well, I am not convinced there was a fix, but if one accounts for the failure to give Boca a red card for a vicious two footed studs up tackle along with the off side, well, I ca't say the allegation is baseless, especially given past performance. The ref does have to keep an element of plausible deniability if he wants to keep reffing, so I would not expect blatant bias. We can only speculate on what the outcome of the game had Boca been sent off, but I think we'd all agree it would have made it significantly harder for our american neighbours to advance.

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


quote:Originally posted by loyola

I don't remember KK reaction to Atiba's shot but some posters on BS are suggesting that he stopped playing before the goal. Can someone confirm if that's true?


It isn't true. He came out to try to make the save & the two US defenders chased after Atiba in vain. The only player who looked like he stopped playing (probably because he saw the linesman's flag) was DeRo.


Some (not all) American fans are in the process of rationalizing the call and result (to much injury time, Keller stopped playing, blah blah blah). They refuse to acknowledge the evidence and/or are changing the circumstances to support their argument. Sounds likes a vaguely familiar strategy.

[Free kick]

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon


quote:Originally posted by loyola


Second, if that was a case of corruption you would have more decisions going the US way like a phantom PK, 1 min of added time or something like that.


Well, I am not convinced there was a fix, but if one accounts for the failure to give Boca a red card for a vicious two footed studs up tackle along with the off side, well, I ca't say the allegation is baseless, especially given past performance. The ref does have to keep an element of plausible deniability if he wants to keep reffing, so I would not expect blatant bias. We can only speculate on what the outcome of the game had Boca been sent off, but I think we'd all agree it would have made it significantly harder for our american neighbours to advance.


I thought it was a red or a yellow and at that particular time in a game you often see the ref giving the yellow for that kind of foul.

I just don't believe the game was fixed. Not enough evidences to conclude that way and the bad call is the AR fault, not the CR.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?


A red card, a goal, 5 substitutions and two instances of the ref getting on the Yanks of time wasting...4 minutes was warranted, although if it were only 3 I'd have not felt too hard done by.

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?


There was 4 minutes announced. If the Americans had a problem with that they could have stopped playing after 2 just to show their moral authority. P.S., Bocanegra should have been red-carded and had the crap kicked out of him.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?


5 subs X 30 seconds
1 goals X 30 seconds
Red card X 30 seconds
USA waste of time by keeping the ball or moving it away X 30 seconds

I have 4 minutes.

[Vancouver Fan]

Perhaps a protest regarding the choice of referee should have been voiced prior to the match. I'm sure it was known days before. Of course no one ever thinks that such events would ever occur.(sarcasm)

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by kclee

Some (not all) American fans are in the process of rationalizing the call and result (to much injury time, Keller stopped playing, blah blah blah). They refuse to acknowledge the evidence and/or are changing the circumstances to support their argument.

Other comments that make up their litany of excuses includes "it wouldn't have mattered if Donovan hadn't whiffed on his shot" ignoring that it was a "whiff" by Stalteri on a back pass that gifted them the opportunity to begin with, "De Guzman clearly handled the ball on the game-tieing goal", ignoring the fact that it was Bernier who played the ball with De Guzman not touching it in the slightest, which shows you how much credibility the eyes of the people imagining the hand-ball have, and that the US should have had two more PK's for hand-balls inside the area. And Hume have had two yellows & sent off because he, at 5 foot 6, was beating up on the 6 foot 4 220 pound Onyewu.

Most of the American posters on that forum know that Canada got screwed & have admitted it, but there's still a sizeable number competing for the most pathetic excuse award. These posters are by & large, the same morons who were stating that anything less than a 4-0 win by the US should be deemed a failure.

I will give them credit for one thing, they are most amusing posters.

[Gian-Luca]

DeRo speaks out:

"Canada's apparent equalizer came in the fifth minute of second-half stoppage time when a Canadian pass toward the penalty area was deflected downward by Onyewu, directly into Hutchinson's path. Louisville told Canadian players that he witnessed a Canadian player head the ball down and ruled offside accordingly.

"When you play those games like that, and you have that on your mind, it's frustrating," DeRosario said. "You know you can't tackle them in your box or touch then in your box because the ref is waiting for a call."
---------

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxNDImZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcxNTU4MjQmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2

[Gian-Luca]

Kevan Pipe bashers might like the photo in this article:

http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/articles/2007/06/22/canadian_coach_slates_referee_selection/

[juxtap]

I admit that there was a robbery!

50/50 questionable calls earlier in the match have nothing, absolutely nothing on a game tying goal in stoppage time.

[john tv]

It is certainly very revealing that we have sofar close to 5000 posts on last nights game. This must be some sort of a record and also shows how much we really care and upsett we are.You can turn or do whatever you want but that goal was disallowed and the big question is what really happened.Was this a very bad call, a premeditaded decision,a matter of appointing the wrong referee knowing that his decisions could influence the team his country would be playing against. It seems to me that his decision was simply a very very poor one. The problem I have with this whole thing is that the referee should have looked at his linesman and he did not,while that linesman was in a much better position to decide.Would it be possible for the referee to disallow that goal and than consult his linesman for support,which i have never seen taken place. These referees are all prima donna's and this would be a no no, yet one that should have been considered. I don't know if the rules even allow for the referee to change his mind.
Whatever it is a effen mess and I guess I can live with it but our players who fought so hard and made such a great commitement. I wonder what the feelings were in the dressing room after the game,it must have been one big swearing party for starters. I believe that the US coach should simply say that in his opinion the Canadians have reasons to be upsett.
The next question is what needs to be done or can be done to avoid this from happening again.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by loyola


quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?


5 subs X 30 seconds
1 goals X 30 seconds
Red card X 30 seconds
USA waste of time by keeping the ball or moving it away X 30 seconds

I have 4 minutes.


Not to harp on the point but: since when do subs and goals warrant time added on? Perhaps if the team who got scored on wastes time putting the ball back in play. But that was not the case, Gerba picked it out of the net quickly and brought it back to the centre spot. As far as subs, well in any game, most of the subs occur in the second half. So how do you explain the instances where there are only 1-2 minutes. For as long as I can recall, I thought that time added on was for primarily injuries. Thats why its sometimes called injury time. thats, time wasted due to trainer applying magic spray and players milling around drinking water. I didn't see any of that.

[Can. in UK]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick


quote:Originally posted by loyola


quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?


5 subs X 30 seconds
1 goals X 30 seconds
Red card X 30 seconds
USA waste of time by keeping the ball or moving it away X 30 seconds

I have 4 minutes.


Not to harp on the point but: since when do subs and goals warrant time added on? Perhaps if the team who got scored on wastes time putting the ball back in play. But that was not the case, Gerba picked it out of the net quickly and brought it back to the centre spot. As far as subs, well in any game, most of the subs occur in the second half. So how do you explain the instances where there are only 1-2 minutes. For as long as I can recall, I thought that time added on was for primarily injuries. Thats why its sometimes called injury time. thats, time wasted due to trainer applying magic spray and players milling around drinking water. I didn't see any of that.


FIFA Rule Book - Law 7:

Allowance for Time Lost

Allowance is made in either period for all time lost through:
substitution(s); assessment of injury to players; removal of injured players from the field of play for treatment; wasting time; any other cause. The allowance for time lost is at the discretion of the referee.

[Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick


quote:Originally posted by loyola


quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Regarding the charges of Corruption and fixes. I am very much inclined to agree with this in regards to that Hinduras match that was reffed by Archundia.

But if you are going to make that same case after last night, you might have to answer why we were given 4 minutes of time added on in the first place. It was another bruttal call against Canada, but if you are going to fix the game, isn't is easier to give very little time added on. Besides where was there 4 minutes of time lost in teh second half?


5 subs X 30 seconds
1 goals X 30 seconds
Red card X 30 seconds
USA waste of time by keeping the ball or moving it away X 30 seconds

I have 4 minutes.


Not to harp on the point but: since when do subs and goals warrant time added on? Perhaps if the team who got scored on wastes time putting the ball back in play. But that was not the case, Gerba picked it out of the net quickly and brought it back to the centre spot. As far as subs, well in any game, most of the subs occur in the second half. So how do you explain the instances where there are only 1-2 minutes. For as long as I can recall, I thought that time added on was for primarily injuries. Thats why its sometimes called injury time. thats, time wasted due to trainer applying magic spray and players milling around drinking water. I didn't see any of that.


Come on FK, don't you know the basic rules of the game? The standard is that every substitution warrants half a minute. So you have to have at least 2.30 there. There is a red card and some time for Julian to get up. There is deliberate time wasting in more than one occasion by the US, which the ref warns them for by touching his watch a few times, on a throw in from their left side in their half, another time on a free kick they take half a minute to take from a similar position.

As I wrote in the game thread, their ball boys stopped giving balls quickly to the players as well, mid 2nd half. Especially in front of the bench on the US side of the field, and behind Keller in goal. That is a US official instructing them there, or perhaps the US players. I have only seen that in one stadium in Spain, consistently as well, and recall one time a ref yellow carding a ball boy there for the practice, which is so embarrassing for any team that promotes it. I think the US promoted it, as the change in their behaviour was rather glaring after a first half with a few moments with too many balls on the field.

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76
How can anyone classify a headed ball as a deflection?? The ball didn't smack him in the side of the face. He made an attempt to play it. It was a poor attempt, but it was a play nonetheless and not a deflection. I think Hart's comments were spot on.


The more I think about it, you guys may be right on that one... I guess my original thinking is that the ball came to him so quickly that it could be considered a deflection...

Unfortunately, it's a moot point.

[sstackho]

Ben Knight's article:
Another CONCA-tastrophe

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article.jsp?content=20070622_112231_4356

[sstackho]

Gerry's blog is here:
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/blogs/gerry_dobson/2007/06/22/sickening_way_to_lose/

91 comments and counting on the G&M article here:
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070621.wsptgold21/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

(although the discussion degenerates into a Canada vs US bitchfest. sigh, I would have hoped that a G&M discussion board could rise slightly above the intelligence level of the average Internet messageboard...)

[yankiboy]

quote:Originally posted by canso


Those Americans who feel ashamed, should. Their team is a joke and a disgrace. Hang down your heads.

Hey Canso, let's get a few things straight:
1)I am not "ashamed". I don't view the result as a fair one for the reasons that I already articulated.

2)Who are you to tell me that I should be embarrased?
What did I do?

3)You are out of order to insult our squad because the officials blew a call. If you want to say that the fouls that drew red or should have drawn red were a "disgrace", I can agree with you on that.

4)I am not going to "Hang down my head".

While as I previously stated, I feel unfufilled about how we reached the final and I find the controversy and the performance to be a disappointment.

You guys have every right to be upset. Even US press agrees with you on that. You don't need to go after those of us who actually have empathy and sympathy in regards to the situation. Very classy.

[The Beaver]

Ben, excellent article--again. Thought our midfield had been excellent all tournment, but faced real and sustained pressure against the US, and could not quite get their game on. Kudos to the US for succeeding here, because our midfield was deadly good prior to last night.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by yankiboy


quote:Originally posted by canso


Those Americans who feel ashamed, should. Their team is a joke and a disgrace. Hang down your heads.

Hey Canso, let's get a few things straight:
1)I am not "ashamed". I don't view the result as a fair one for the reasons that I already articulated.

2)Who are you to tell me how I should feel?

3)You are out of order to insult our squad because the officials blew a call. If you want to say that the fouls that drew red or should have drawn red were a "disgrace", I can agree with you on that.

4)I am not going to "Hang down my head".

While as I previously stated, I feel unfufilled about how we reached the final and I find the controversy and the performance to be a disappointment.

You guys have every right to be upset. Even US press agrees with you on that. You don't need to go after those of us who actually have empathy and sympathy in regards to the situation. Very classy.


Your beef is with Canso, and I'll stick out of it, but I think it is vital for you and the other reasonable US fans to know that the majority of us--Canso, too, probably--are upset with the ref, and with CONCACAF for not doing a better job with regards to improving officiating in the region as well as making sure that the ref for a semi-final match is not a citizen of the same country as any of the four teams in the semi-final. As for the latter, at minimum CONCACAF needs to cover its ass. It is the optics as much as anything else. CONCACAF must ensure that nothing about this tournament favours or appears to be biased towards a US - Mexico final. We won't see the rise of other soccer nations in the zone if they continue in this regard, and a more competitive region should do much to raise the overall level of play of the elite teams, which at this point includes only the US and Mexico.

But we are closing the gap, and fast.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver


quote:Originally posted by yankiboy


quote:Originally posted by canso


Those Americans who feel ashamed, should. Their team is a joke and a disgrace. Hang down your heads.

Hey Canso, let's get a few things straight:
1)I am not "ashamed". I don't view the result as a fair one for the reasons that I already articulated.

2)Who are you to tell me how I should feel?

3)You are out of order to insult our squad because the officials blew a call. If you want to say that the fouls that drew red or should have drawn red were a "disgrace", I can agree with you on that.

4)I am not going to "Hang down my head".

While as I previously stated, I feel unfufilled about how we reached the final and I find the controversy and the performance to be a disappointment.

You guys have every right to be upset. Even US press agrees with you on that. You don't need to go after those of us who actually have empathy and sympathy in regards to the situation. Very classy.


Your beef is with Canso, and I'll stick out of it, but I think it is vital for you and the other reasonable US fans to know that the majority of us--Canso, too, probably--are upset with the ref, and with CONCACAF for not doing a better job with regards to improving officiating in the region as well as making sure that the ref for a semi-final match is not a citizen of the same country as any of the four teams in the semi-final. As for the latter, at minimum CONCACAF needs to cover its ass. It is the optics as much as anything else. CONCACAF must ensure that nothing about this tournament favours or appears to be biased towards a US - Mexico final. We won't see the rise of other soccer nations in the zone if they continue in this regard, and a more competitive region should do much to raise the overall level of play of the elite teams, which at this point includes only the US and Mexico.

But we are closing the gap, and fast.


And we (canadian fans) don't have to attack US players, fans and officials for to express our frustration with CONCACAF.

[canso]

"I admit that there was a robbery!"

That's one, one honest American with integrity.

muwhaahahhhahaha

[soccernut]

It's unfortunate to see the match end like that. Looked like a goal to me. Should have made the score 4-2. The US fell asleep 50 minutes into the match. LD should hide his face after the swing and a miss sure goal. Come ON!
Until Canada can show at the International level, not that the US has, they will get no respect.
To think the match was rigged or set-up is ludicrous. A mistake was made. Turns out a bad one. I say play the match again.
Canada has some really awesome players. Looking forward to seeing them climb the ranks.
One question. Why didn't Hume play the entire match? That guy is incredible!!!

[juxtap]

quote:Originally posted by canso

"I admit that there was a robbery!"

That's one, one honest American with integrity.

muwhaahahhhahaha

I don't, however, believe we were the perps involved. There were a couple bad calls for both teams early on, but in order to call that goal. I just don't believe that was an honest bad call. It was too blatent. I just don't think, generally, Americans care enough about soccer/football to smear an official's palm. Although, the fanbase in America is growing.

[canso]

If you're confused as to why you should feel sorry, I'll give you a list of things to feel sorry for:

on behalf of the rampant corruption that favours your team and ruins fair competition.

on behalf of the fact your players are trying to become world class divers and failing miserably

on behalf of that lump of misbegotten sub humanity that you call Gooch, which is a testament to a trend of pure bulk no intellect defending becoming popular in your federation.

[speedmonk42]

I would just like to say.

I couldn't read this thread.

[River City]

Jack Warner, Chuck Blazer and Kevan Pipe....the holy trinity of cronyism.

[River City]

Jack Warner, Chuck Blazer and Kevan Pipe....the holy trinity of cronyism.

[canso]

"don't have to attack US players,"

Why the hell not?
Landycakes Donovan is a disgrace, diving all over the place and mincing about like a Metrosexual. He's supposed to be the posterboy for the game in the USA but any red blooded sports fan watching that poofta will change the channel damn quick. Why not attack him?

That lump of stupdity on steroids they call Gooch is also setting a bad example, paving the way for a trend to bulking, overly physical specimens who don't understand the game and are a menace as a result. Why not attack him?

Why not attack Bocanegra for nearly breaking DeGuzman's legs? What about the nepotism of the coach playing his 20 year old son when he's clearly overmatched, is that a good thing? Is that above reproach?

I'm disgusted by the whole arrogant American team and the fact they're prancing around waving flags into a final they have no business being in. Damn right I'm going to attack them, every chance I get. :(

[canso]

"don't have to attack US players,"

Why the hell not?
Landycakes Donovan is a disgrace, diving all over the place and mincing about like a Metrosexual. He's supposed to be the posterboy for the game in the USA but any red blooded sports fan watching that poofta will change the channel damn quick. Why not attack him?

That lump of stupdity on steroids they call Gooch is also setting a bad example, paving the way for a trend to bulking, overly physical specimens who don't understand the game and are a menace as a result. Why not attack him?

Why not attack Bocanegra for nearly breaking DeGuzman's legs? What about the nepotism of the coach playing his 20 year old son when he's clearly overmatched, is that a good thing? Is that above reproach?

I'm disgusted by the whole arrogant American team and the fact they're prancing around waving flags into a final they have no business being in. Damn right I'm going to attack them, every chance I get. :(

[speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Jack Warner, Chuck Blazer and Kevan Pipe....the holy trinity of cronyism.


Well I don't think it is fair to put Pipe in that league.

I may not like him, but at least one or both of those other guys is a definite criminal.

[speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Jack Warner, Chuck Blazer and Kevan Pipe....the holy trinity of cronyism.


Well I don't think it is fair to put Pipe in that league.

I may not like him, but at least one or both of those other guys is a definite criminal.

[speedmonk42]

Yeah Bocanegra should have had a red.

That really rattled the Guz, and I don't blame him.

Hmmm. Looks like I have started reading the thread.

[speedmonk42]

Yeah Bocanegra should have had a red.

That really rattled the Guz, and I don't blame him.

Hmmm. Looks like I have started reading the thread.

[juxtap]

quote:Originally posted by canso

If you're confused as to why you should feel sorry, I'll give you a list of things to feel sorry for:

on behalf of the rampant corruption that favours your team and ruins fair competition.

on behalf of the fact your players are trying to become world class divers and failing miserably

on behalf of that lump of misbegotten sub humanity that you call Gooch, which is a testament to a trend of pure bulk no intellect defending becoming popular in your federation.

Whoa, whoa, hey now. When did this become a thread about bashing the US MNT? I'm sorry what happened did. That should have gone to ET, I know. But to trash talk at US MNT isn't fair. I think your focus should be on the officials. Additionally, don't make diving sound like some unique American thing. Most everyone dives today, and diving is the cancer that's killing world football. Did you watch WC06? Italy was full of notorious divers along with Portugal. The people who don't seem to be divers are unfortunately the underdogs of international competition. I saw the Donovan dive, and frankly, I don't like Donovan anyway. But don't make it sound like some uniquely American thing.

There is nothing wrong with Gooch, other than putting himself out of position 10-15 minutes of every match :( If anything Gooch is scrutinized more than any other defender by officials due to his size, and I think he gets the short end of the stick. Gooch also had nothing to do with the call at hand. If anything he gave you a goal that the official took away.

Talk to the officials. Send those emails. I'm on your side in this matter, but I'm not going to abandon support for my team.

[yankiboy]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver
Your beef is with Canso, and I'll stick out of it, but I think it is vital for you and the other reasonable US fans to know that the majority of us--Canso, too, probably--are upset with the ref, and with CONCACAF for not doing a better job with regards to improving officiating in the region as well as making sure that the ref for a semi-final match is not a citizen of the same country as any of the four teams in the semi-final. As for the latter, at minimum CONCACAF needs to cover its ass. It is the optics as much as anything else. CONCACAF must ensure that nothing about this tournament favours or appears to be biased towards a US - Mexico final. We won't see the rise of other soccer nations in the zone if they continue in this regard, and a more competitive region should do much to raise the overall level of play of the elite teams, which at this point includes only the US and Mexico.

But we are closing the gap, and fast.

Beaver, we agree. 100%. Dead to rites.

This was the best series of performances that I have seen from the Canadian Senior Men's Team in years. Especially in retrospect, I think that Sir Bobby and some of the Canadian fans were too hard on your side after the game with Guadeloupe considering that team's performance in this tournament.

Canada is a force to be reckoned with. Notice has been served.

[speedmonk42]

Sorry but most of the USA fans on here, and other boards have been first rate in showing a great deal of class.

So lets not take crap out on the wrong people. I know we are pissed off.

I will admit the US team is changing, I see a different kind of team on the field than several years ago, and I don't like it.

[River City]

Jack Warner and Chuck Blazer are definitely in a league of their own (I won't say criminal for legal reasons even if I have my suspicions). I added Pipe though because he survived 20 odd years at the CSA, while Canadian soccer went downhill and was able to get a nice FIFA golden parachute.

The more I look at the pictures of Hutch and Stalteri and Hume and Onstad at the end of the game, the more contempt I feel for the way Canadian soccer has been administered. How can our team succeed when the only ones truly behind them is an assorted collection of over refreshed, internet trolling, soccer nuts calling themselves the Voyageurs?

[yankiboy]

quote:Originally posted by canso

If you're confused as to why you should feel sorry, I'll give you a list of things to feel sorry for:

on behalf of the rampant corruption that favours your team and ruins fair competition.

on behalf of the fact your players are trying to become world class divers and failing miserably

on behalf of that lump of misbegotten sub humanity that you call Gooch, which is a testament to a trend of pure bulk no intellect defending becoming popular in your federation.

It is obvious that there can't be reasonable diaolgue with you. It is a waste of time and energy. We have US fans like you. Every country has them. After an attempt or two of trying to reason with them, I don't even bother; it becomes obvious that it is an effort in futility.

The majority of Voyaguers and Canadian soccer fans are not like that. That is why I will continue to root for Canada, the only country that I have seriously considered emigrating to, the all too often overlooked and underappreciated jewel of North America.

MAXIMUM RESPECT TO ALL OF THE GOOD FOLKS UP NORTH.

[speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by River City

Jack Warner and Chuck Blazer are definitely in a league of their own (I won't say criminal for legal reasons even if I have my suspicions). I added Pipe though because he survived 20 odd years at the CSA, while Canadian soccer went downhill and was able to get a nice FIFA golden parachute.

The more I look at the pictures of Hutch and Stalteri and Hume and Onstad at the end of the game, the more contempt I feel for the way Canadian soccer has been administered. How can our team succeed when the only ones truly behind them is an assorted collection of over refreshed, internet trolling, soccer nuts calling themselves the Voyageurs?


It is all about the change.

We have a stadium and organizations that will ensure Canada never plays an away game at home again.

[canso]

"The people who don't seem to be divers are unfortunately the underdogs of international competition."

My point exactly. You want to be world class so you start diving all over the place. It's a disgrace. We used to be able to count on you guys being one of the few tems in the region that would stay on their feet and slug it out and play the game the way men do.
Winning without honour is not a victory. You should be ashamed of your team.

Canadian style means staying on your feet and playing with honour.
If we have to start flopping all over the place like boneless chickens in order to get to a World Cup, then I don't want to go!

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by canso

If you're confused as to why you should feel sorry, I'll give you a list of things to feel sorry for:

on behalf of the rampant corruption that favours your team and ruins fair competition.

on behalf of the fact your players are trying to become world class divers and failing miserably

on behalf of that lump of misbegotten sub humanity that you call Gooch, which is a testament to a trend of pure bulk no intellect defending becoming popular in your federation.






Of course Hume didn't dive??? Bernier didn't embellish that foul in the first half (he would've been clear on goal if he hadn't gone down like that)???

Except for Donovan dive, I haven't seen many dives by the USA players and like I just pointed out we have divers among our players....let's not forget about Simpson, Johnson and Peters who have in the past dove wearing the Maple Leaf.....I guess it's just not the same....

What I said was that you don't need to attack USA players for the bad call, it's not their business. But of course like USA fans at BigSoccer have their own moron posting, the V's always need one or two of those....

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42


quote:Originally posted by River City

Jack Warner and Chuck Blazer are definitely in a league of their own (I won't say criminal for legal reasons even if I have my suspicions). I added Pipe though because he survived 20 odd years at the CSA, while Canadian soccer went downhill and was able to get a nice FIFA golden parachute.

The more I look at the pictures of Hutch and Stalteri and Hume and Onstad at the end of the game, the more contempt I feel for the way Canadian soccer has been administered. How can our team succeed when the only ones truly behind them is an assorted collection of over refreshed, internet trolling, soccer nuts calling themselves the Voyageurs?


It is all about the change.

We have a stadium and organizations that will ensure Canada never plays an away game at home again.
I'm hoping that last night also becomes the straw that broke the camel's back. When you see the US fans saying (almost unanimously) that we were robbed, when you see the focus that is on soccer in this country, when you see that we will be hosting the U-20s, maybe we reach a point where FIFA admits that this is broken and needs to be fixed.

A boy can dream, can't he?

(All I know is that game has given me one powerful hangover. Yep, must've been the game.)

[JPB]

Thanks for the (overly-generous) props on my previous comment. Nice crowd here.

* * * * *

I'm going to add more remarks about the disallowed goal but I'll do so in the thread dealing just with that topic.

* * * * *

During this tournie, and in warm-up games, the USA team has consistently muffed a plentitude of chances on goal. They had few chances in this game but still did not show the killer strike. That's a big problem. It almost cost them their lead.

The complaints about the excessive roughness in the midfield goes both ways, I think, but (with my admittedly pro-Canada bias) the USA team was guilty of the sort of wreckless play more common in bush leagues. Yes, they showed determination, but two or three tackles in particular could have resulted in snapped bones. This was a sign not of desperation in the heat of the moment, but of a lack of discipline in executing an the sound tactics of an aggressive midfield containment against a slippery Canadian crew. Their tactics worked just fine. The roughness was uncalled for and could have cost the USA big time had a red cards been issued for those particular offences. They wilted in the last half -- imagine if they had been reduced to 10 or 9 men going into overtime. They got away with it but this is another big problem for the USA team, longterm.

I loved the full stadium for this match. The green in the seats was actually a boost for the Canadian squad, I thought. Soccer fans appreciate good play no matter the country of origin. Given how the Mexican team has been playing, I think the green supporters were delighted to see the style and the never-say-die performance of the Cannucks. I dunno, but this was a great day for the Canadian team because they earned gazoodles of respect from the audience, the other teams, and from the long suffering Canadian supporters.

Despite the loss, I think this was a victory for the Cannucks.

Despite the win, I think this was an alarming warning bell for the Yanks.

[juxtap]

quote:
(All I know is that game has given me one powerful hangover. Yep, must've been the game.)

I nearly skipped work over it. First thing comming in, I'm talking about this game that no one watched (in America, 90% don't give a rats ass). People giving me weird looks. So I plop at my desk and just stare out the window, towards the north (from Florida btw).

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by juxtap


quote:
(All I know is that game has given me one powerful hangover. Yep, must've been the game.)

I nearly skipped work over it. First thing comming in, I'm talking about this game that no one watched (in America, 90% don't give a rats ass). People giving me weird looks. So I plop at my desk and just stare out the window, towards the north (from Florida btw).
I was talking to my boss (a soccer fan) about it in a hallway today and this guy I'd never seen before was eavesdropping and started in about how bad the call was. That was kinda cool, actually.

[River City]

If you're on facebook.com check out the group CANADA WAS ROBBED IN THE GOLD CUP The fifth picture in the picture gallery is hilarious....I'm just too much of a Luddite to be able to post it here.

[juxtap]

quote:I was talking to my boss (a soccer fan) about it in a hallway today and this guy I'd never seen before was eavesdropping and started in about how bad the call was. That was kinda cool, actually.

It's just so clear that people who may have been flipping channels could have stopped for a second, seen it, and knwoing very little about football, still been aghast. My gf saw it and flipped, and she doesnt really care about my sports. She thought it was weird for me to have been crying over it though. Even though I support my own US team, I was still riding passenger seat with Canada as soon as that Hume goal went in. I thought I was about to see the comeback story of the decade.

[Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by canso

"don't have to attack US players,"

Why the hell not?
Landycakes Donovan is a disgrace, diving all over the place and mincing about like a Metrosexual. He's supposed to be the posterboy for the game in the USA but any red blooded sports fan watching that poofta will change the channel damn quick. Why not attack him?

That lump of stupdity on steroids they call Gooch is also setting a bad example, paving the way for a trend to bulking, overly physical specimens who don't understand the game and are a menace as a result. Why not attack him?

Why not attack Bocanegra for nearly breaking DeGuzman's legs? What about the nepotism of the coach playing his 20 year old son when he's clearly overmatched, is that a good thing? Is that above reproach?

I'm disgusted by the whole arrogant American team and the fact they're prancing around waving flags into a final they have no business being in. Damn right I'm going to attack them, every chance I get. :(




Canso, I am with you 100%. And it has nothing to do with the US, or even with US sport in general. Their national team is a rival of my team and I want them to lose even in training. AS I do with any other potential rival, I want to kick all their butts.

But watching the US play dirty (attempting to take out our best player is very low and cheap), diving, absurd antics (if Landon did that penalty routine in Spain he'd be carded for disrespect to the rival and time wasting), getting unfair advantage by playing a neutral ground tournament always at home, then strutting about how they deserve to dominate the region with Mexico, well that is disgusting.

All the Yanks coming on here saying oh we feel bad, well screw them, bunch of Bible college boys with some psychological syndrome whereby you love your enemy only after you have unfairly defeated him. I could not give a damn about their presence on this board, unless they happen to want to intelligently talk about the game on a thread having nothing to do with them or their team.

I said the same thing when we heard a few Whitecaps fans on this board throw out three decades of bitter rivalry just because they'd had a drink with a Sounders' fan, same sort of BS. So Yanks and conciliatory Canucks: if you don't want me to be that kind of fan, then don't come on this board and read me. And when and if, because we are still a ways away, we start beating them and they maybe miss a WC, I am going to rub it into their faces with glee.

[RJB]

Bocanegra had no business being on the pitch after that tackle on De Guzman. There was not attempt to play the ball, and shame on Craig Forrest for saying that there was.

We played right with them. We should be proud of our performance. The penalty was a penalty, even though Beasley did a great job of selling it. Onstad has to be smarter.

The offside was a shame. The referee needs to be smarter and recognize where the ball came from in order to over rule that call.

Also, what was the deal with Donovan being allowed so much time to chat up Onstad before the Penalty? I don't care if they used to be teammates, where is the referee stopping this? I highly doubt that Donovan was exchanging pleasantries.

But hey, this is what we want right? We gotta get the game big in the States. A succesful MLS is good for Canadian soccer because we can then ride the coat tails. A succesful US National Team is good for Canada too for a similar reason(sic).

[CanadasBest]

lol, Archundia's Wikipedia page has been suspended due to vandalism. There were some pretty funny changes up there at one point...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Archundia

[secondtimelucky_tfc]

The article that was wriiten on the CONCACAF website pisses me off almost as much as the original sin. " Canada complains about offside call". Its like theyre saying we are the only ones (canadians) who saw it that way. There has been no one saying it was bad call or A $!#* up, no one getting on thier knees and saying we saw it too!!!! At least admit it. YOU STOLE THE GAME FROM US!!!! JUST SAY IT YOU BLEEDING CROOKS!!
With us taking control of the game, them losing a man and Canada clearly evening it up at 2......ahhhhhhhhh screw it!!!!!

We do have a world class team. And if the CSA does the whole 1 step forward 2 steps back dance they seem to do so often....well lets just hop[e it doesnt happen that way.
But other then the obvious talking points it was ONE HELL OF A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!

[mcaout]

Just like to say that I've seen the goal since many more times and Hutch is clearly onside when the first ball is played. I wasn't sure of that before, but I am now.

[mcaout]

Just like to say that I've seen the goal since many more times and Hutch is clearly onside when the first ball is played. I wasn't sure of that before, but I am now.

[MegasAlexandros]

I'm not impressed...:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=100700&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

[MegasAlexandros]

Not sure where the posts from Big Bird stating he had software showing it was offside went... but here is definite proof (sorry if this has been posted already):

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2355/canadagoalmr5.jpg

Is there really any doubt???

[JamesW]

quote:Originally posted by MegasAlexandros

I'm not impressed...:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=100700&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

What a piece of crap!

[kclee]

quote:Originally posted by MegasAlexandros

I'm not impressed...:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20070622&content_id=100700&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp


The States are overrated. That's perspective.