What MlLS final? [Archive] - Voyageurs Forum

amacpher

11-13-2006, 09:13 AM

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Gentlemen we have to stop this crap,we must all get involved in find a united way to stop this ignorance to continue. We must demand our rights and we must demand I would cal it " equal opportunity" Any thoughts or suggestions?

I think it would be bad PR to print anything about that MLS match. It would only strengthen people's stereotypes about the sport (low-scoring, diving, and then to have everything decided by penalties).

I would hope that if the papers were gonna have an article or two on soccer today that they would write about Arsenal v Liverpool; Barcelona v Zaragoza; Ajax v PSV.

Rudi

11-13-2006, 09:42 AM

John, the only way for us to get the Toronto media to stop "ignoring" soccer (which I don't personally believe to be the case) is to show up in great numbers next year for Toronto FC.

If seasoin ticket sales are any indication, we're well on our way in that regard.

Rocket Robin

11-13-2006, 09:53 AM

Why don't you read your paper more carefully? Try Page B8 top left corner..."Canucks lead Dynamo to Cup". Word for word same as the internet edition.

That's today's Toronto Star, newspaper edition. On the same page as the photo of Tiger Woods holding a bouquet with headline "Tiger's streak is snapped".

john tv

11-13-2006, 10:44 AM

Not in my Star this morning and I can assure you I used a toothcomb.

john tv

11-13-2006, 11:31 AM

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

John, the only way for us to get the Toronto media to stop "ignoring" soccer (which I don't personally believe to be the case) is to show up in great numbers next year for Toronto FC.

If seasoin ticket sales are any indication, we're well on our way in that regard.

Rudi I have been this route so many times and i can assure you that even within the Torornto media they agree that there is that thing. They will never go public or be quoted but that is a fact. There are editors and even writers in the sportsdepartment that get a huge ride in downplaying soccer or giving those that write about soccer make them feel like a heel. It is that bad.Soccer is a bad joke in all the sports departments and treated as such.

DJT

11-13-2006, 11:47 AM

Are there different editions of the Star? Like Robin, my copy has the article on page B8.

This page (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Render&c=Page&cid=970599119419) lists articles that appear in the printed version of today's Star. You'll see that the article in question appears on the list, near the bottom.

bmac

11-13-2006, 11:48 AM

I went to the CIS Finals yesterday afternoon so tried to tape the MLS match on ABC.

I usually would not bother as I rarely have enjoyed a MLS game on TV and turn off the sound to avoid the colour commentary which makes even Dobson palatable except for the fact that Houston has the Cdn contingent

Unfortunately I did not allow for overtime and penalties and yes, the tape ended before the game concluded.

Saw the goals in OT and the the final stop by Houston's keeper on either TSN or SportsNet last evening.

john tv

11-13-2006, 12:21 PM

How about the Globe? as well.Anybody saw any metion of the game other than a very detailed score.

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 01:36 PM

So here's an update on The Media Conspiracy, everyone. (And yes, this is really me.)

Dark, dark day, yesterday. The game was too good, Onstad made the key save, and we couldn't keep it out of the media.

Just kidding. We were able to keep it out of John's newspapers, though. We're just messing with the guy. we love him. Honest.

You're going to see beat reporters assigned to Toronto FC by the Star and the Sun. The Globe won't consider the games a national story, so they'll pick up wire cope (except in John's neighbourhood, where we'll run lawn bowling scores from Moose Jaw in six-point type.

Toronto FC won't get the column inches Toronto's other teams do -- at least until they start seeling as much beer, furniture and real estate. But the stories will be written, and they will appear (except in John's neighbourhood, where the Star and Sun will run government advertising, while the globe favours think pieces on Bolivian parasailing.

Me? I've just been renewed to write many more soccer columns for Sportsnet. I've got one up now about the MLS Cup Final. That won't appease John, of course. He's decided he hates me, even though he couldn't get enough of me when I used to volunteer my heart, soul and time to televise Robbie Soccer Tournament games back in the day. (Thanks, John, by the way. I loved doing that, even though it went directly against The Conspiracy.)

I'm really sorry you're so miserable about this, sir. It's been demonstated to you, over and over again, that you have no blessed clue what you're talking about. The only place this conspiracy actually exists is in your own mind, and your own spiteful short-sightedness.

But if it will make you feel any better, I can absolutely guarantee you that Toronto FC will never get the ink the Leafs do. That must, of course, be A Conspiracy.

Just what exactly the heck do you think they're building down at the Exhibition anyway?

Onward! // Ben

bmac

11-13-2006, 01:51 PM

LOL...thank you for the chuckle Ben.

Loud Mouth Soup

11-13-2006, 01:55 PM

Oh man-Bolivian parasailing! I can't wait.

/thanks for that Ben. Too funny.

amacpher

11-13-2006, 02:17 PM

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Rudi I have been this route so many times and i can assure you that even within the Torornto media they agree that there is that thing. They will never go public or be quoted but that is a fact. There are editors and even writers in the sportsdepartment that get a huge ride in downplaying soccer or giving those that write about soccer make them feel like a heel. It is that bad.Soccer is a bad joke in all the sports departments and treated as such.

My question is: why do you care so much if soccer isn't covered that much in mainstream media? And what do you expect?

If you really need to see the sports you follow covered in more depth by the mainstream media, I suggest you only follow NHL, CFL and curling from now on. There is plenty of mainstream media coverage of those leagues where you live and this way you can feel secure knowing that the media pays attention to your interests.

marktci

11-13-2006, 02:21 PM

Actually, it's a little-known fact that sportswriters who have covered soccer earlier in their career are better writers than those who have never covered soccer and it actually helps them in their reporting on other sports. Stephen Brunt covers soccer. Damien Cox covered Hamilton youth soccer as a cub reporter. Dave Perkins has never covered soccer in his life.

It's something to do with dexterity and vision, I think. And the fresh air. Helps to clear the mind.

Daniel

11-13-2006, 02:24 PM

quote:Originally posted by marktci

Actually, it's a little-known fact that sportswriters who have covered soccer earlier in their career are better writers than those who have never covered soccer and it actually helps them in their reporting on other sports. Stephen Brunt covers soccer. Damien Cox covered Hamilton youth soccer as a cub reporter. Dave Perkins has never covered soccer in his life.

It's something to do with dexterity and vision, I think. And the fresh air. Helps to clear the mind.

Ahahahahahahahhahaha!

And john, what the hell is the MILS?

john tv

11-13-2006, 02:36 PM

Hey Benny yes you did a wondewrfull job for the Robbie and that I have said many times. The media is soccer biggest problem. The media looks as soccer as a step child that probably should go away. It is not North North American and it represents a sport that did not find it's roots over here.It is an emigrant sport and the laughing stock in all sports departments.The rookies are sent and even punished to cover soccer. There is not a decent or well known soccer writer in Toronto.You very well know what I accomplished in soccer in Toronto through the Robbie.This was mammouth stuff and looking back at it amazing what i did do. This is not to pat myself on the back. I have always maintained that soccer is a lot bigger than my ego.I am extremely suspicious of all these writers and I know what they have in the back of their minds as well.We have never been acceppted as being part of the North American media team.We are the outsiders. I really hope and even pray that because of the boys involved the media will appoint high profile soccer writers that will be able to show the life that soccer represents. The real fun the real athletes and the real Canadians who will excell. Wer don't want anymore rookie writers who get punished doing the soccer beat. We demand those that bring us to those levels that the Hockey,baseball and football guys have. We really demand that equal thing. Will it happen ,well do you think it is possible to convert a Irish catholic to become a protestant?
I think it is that serious.I really hope I am totally wrong,but these have been my observations for the last twenty years.
Benny since you are reading this stuff why not an article about all the boys who are playing all over the world. It is amazing how many canadians are representing our country abroad. I often wondered if baseball,football and basketball have that many kids as we have.Certainly not in that many countries I am sure. We live in a very isolated sporting world and totally foreign to anyone else in sports.Our systems are totally different and the promotion or relegation systems would be very interesting to write about.
Even the systems they use to adopt youth systems and how they really care about the way kids learn are are developed. Hey we even have some masters in soccer because of the youth system developments in other countries,ie Holland.
I can go on and on,but I am talking about two totally different worlds and totally different aims as well.Maybe another article would be great and finally an article about soccer and it's inroads in the media and will it be succesfull. Will Canada have well known soccer writers in the future and will we have a status in the main stream media that reeks of success.

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 02:51 PM

John, there are archvies are articles about Canadians playing soccer all over the world. The story has been covered to the point of boredom. Go ask a non-soccer fan about Canadian soccer players, and eleven times out of ten you'll hear "aren't they all playing overseas?"

Now listen good, buster, 'cause you're not going to get this explained so clearly to you again.

SOCCER DOESN'T NEED THE MEDIA.

Both professional lacrosse and curling have made huge strides forward this decade -- and they've done it with far less Canadian media coverage than soccer. Even if you actually heard some editor say to some other editor once upon a bad night in a pub that soccer is an immigrant game and nobody cares, it makes absolutely no difference.

Toronto FC will sink or swim based on its ability to connect to soccer fans directly, not through all the non-existent articles you keep whining about. You're blurring and distorting a very central and important issue, and I honestly wish you'd knock it off.

Nobody decides where to spend their sports dollars based on what the media says. Sure, positive articles help a little. But you know what, John? Those articles are out there. I've been known to write a few of them myself every now and then.

But I'm not telling people what to do. I'm just trying to give them something interesting to think about. Sportsnet.ca gives me a wonderful forum to do this from, and they've never once tried to discourage me.

I don't know what standard you're setting, but it will never, ever be achieved. You seem to think the Canadian media should look like Italian papers on Mondays -- all soccer, all the time, everywhere! It can't happen, John, and nobody needs to invent a conspiracy to know that.

Soccer fans in Toronto are incredibly lucky right now. Everything fell just right, and we had a mauor with the vision and guts to ram the deal home. We're getting a stadium, John! And a division-one pro soccer team! The media cannot take that a way -- nor does it want to.

Yeah, MLS could fail in this town. But it won't be the media's fault. and if a few disgruntled back-room good old boys told you differently, they also told you wrong.

I have never questioned your passion for the game, sir, nor the time and effort you have put into it. That's all positive, and thank you very much from all of us.

But will you please stop chasing shadows, and insulting the hard-won efforts of such soccer writers as actually exist here -- people you might actually find yourself in profound agreement with if you could just rid yourself of this idea that we all secretly want the game to fail.

Your passion is correct. The way you're using it is selfish, and destructive.

Sorry to rant, but I'm very, very disappointed with you.

Yours in soccer // Ben

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 02:53 PM

Oh, and my name is not -- nor ever has it been -- "Benny."

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 02:54 PM

Oh, and my name is not -- nor ever has it been -- "Benny."

john tv

11-13-2006, 03:12 PM

I really don't know who these soccer writers are or will be.It seems that we still have the rookies that sometimes show up.I have spoken to everyone in the "who is who in soccer" and they all agree that the media is the either biggest ennemie or the one thing that Candian soccer is lacking big time. I was there with the Blizzard and how i fought my little heart out for some coveage. They would after the game but never ever before the game,never.Canadian soccer ie the Canadian team got shafted every time they played at Varsity,never ever any write up prior to the game.It was sickening.Hey last week were was the Star or even an article about the FIFA's final report. Not a word at all. We all know that Perkins has a hard on for soccer and i wonder how many in that department are on his side. It seems that the editor is on his side. Why this crap. What is wrong with getting this stadium.
The taxpayers will get their money back ten fold simply in revenues generated through the various industries.
Back to your first line about our kids,maybe i am asking the wrong people but i have never ever spoken to someone about anyone with the instant recognition factor.
I can assure you is that over these twenty or so fighting years i have made many friends among the toronto media and this was simply because of all the efforts I put into this.It seems to be a mission in my life,since i so strongly believe that our soccer kids need this wonderfull outlet and we need our own team and we need to reach the top,I know we have the talent both on the girls and boys side.I know because of my exposure that we have that ability and the only thing that stands in it's way is that media. We must get to that magic first base and as of yet we are not even on that playing field.

Daniel

11-13-2006, 03:13 PM

John, it's time to give it up.

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 03:14 PM

Well. John, I've led you to water, but it sounds like you'd rather have a drink.

Hope some of the rest of you heard me.

Loud Mouth Soup

11-13-2006, 03:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by Ben Knight

Oh, and my name is not -- nor ever has it been -- "Benny."

I just hope you don't have a back-up band named The Jets. That would kinda ruin the name for them...

/got a whole lot o' nuthin.

john tv

11-13-2006, 03:18 PM

Hey what about that water business, I really would appreciate your reply on my observations above. This answer does not cut it at all, rather rude.I know you are capable of reading and obvious replying as well. Come on ben, this is not the way to end this type of discussion or even fight.

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 03:26 PM

John, you're taking every slight against soccer you've ever heard and turning it into public policy! It's ludicrous. So a FIFA report fell to the wayside. So Perkins hates the stadium deal. Do you honestly believe any of that is holding soccer back?

Newspapers aren't even the main plotline anymore. I don't even go to them for soccer news -- although the Star's had some useful socceer columns on Thursdays lately. I go to the internet for my info, and to sites like this so I can understand what real soccer fans are thinking.

One last time: The media can't make soccer succeed or fail. Period. Once you get that, it doesn't matter who said what to whom.

dbailey62

11-13-2006, 03:27 PM

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Hey what about that water business, I really would appreciate your reply on my observations above. This answer does not cut it at all, rather rude.

LOL. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

db

john tv

11-13-2006, 03:47 PM

The media can make soccer fail. I have read to many articles about the way the media did the NASL in. Even Clive Toye in his latest book "a kick in the grass", makes reference to this horrible and negative media.The internet is fine,but in the morning i just get my papers and find the sports pages and read what i want to read,but in the back of my mind i am always looking for articles on soccer.When an article on soccer should be in the paper i look for it and when i don't see it than these horns go up again.
To be honest i never go to the Internet for my soccer info at least not in the morning. I do watch fox sports world and goal tv and that's is enough. I have watched the various sports stations to hear and see about Canadian soccer or soccer in general,but it is very brief and watered down stuff and certainly not as much as any other sport of importance.To be very honest i have to have to wait till the end for soccer if it comes up at all.That's why the fox and goal guys serve me a lot better.I hope in the long run that these stations will move soccer to the foreground as well.Oh Jesu.. now Bailey as well. i wondered what took him so long.
Hey guys all i want is recognition for Canadian soccer and that the media is not doing at all capice.
If you are happy with just soccer news i guess you should be in heaven since it seems that there are more soccer games on tv than any other sport. yet it gets very little attention by Bill Houston and Chris Zelkovich. It ain't Nort American and sometimes i even understand that as well.
So kettles and black etc again we need more done for Canadian soccer and that is my beef.I wonder what the media will do about our game against Hungary.Just curious.

Ben Knight

11-13-2006, 03:54 PM

John, contrary to what you might have read, the NASL was done in by over-expansion and incompetent owners.

You seem to think that if the editors of every Canadian paper decided they wanted to destroy Canadian soccer, Canadian soccer would die.

You are giving far too much credit to their power, and far too little to their intelligence.

The "recognition" you seek would be nice, sure. It's already out there, though apparently not in your copies of the paper.

But it isn't necessary, and it won't make a critical difference, one way or the other.

'Nuff said. Thanks for the exchange.

amacpher

11-13-2006, 04:52 PM

quote:Originally posted by john tv

The media can make soccer fail. I have read to many articles about the way the media did the NASL in. Even Clive Toye in his latest book "a kick in the grass", makes reference to this horrible and negative media.The internet is fine,but in the morning i just get my papers and find the sports pages and read what i want to read,but in the back of my mind i am always looking for articles on soccer.When an article on soccer should be in the paper i look for it and when i don't see it than these horns go up again.

Did those horns go up again when you lived in the Netherlands and didn't read any cricket or NFL news in their papers? They should have. I mean there is a clear conspiracy within the Dutch media to prevent cricket and NFL from growing in Holland.

quote:
To be honest i never go to the Internet for my soccer info at least not in the morning.

You should because you follow a niche sport that will never become mainstream in the country you live in. Which means you hafta go out and look for the news. It won't just hit you like news that the masses are interested in.

Either that or you should move back to Holland.

quote:
That's why the fox and goal guys serve me a lot better.I hope in the long run that these stations will move soccer to the foreground as well.Oh Jesu.. now Bailey as well. i wondered what took him so long.
Hey guys all i want is recognition for Canadian soccer and that the media is not doing at all capice.

It is not the media's job to promote soccer. They write about stuff that people are interested in. Which explains why they write very little about soccer in Canada.

quote:
So kettles and black etc again we need more done for Canadian soccer and that is my beef.I wonder what the media will do about our game against Hungary.Just curious.

Probably very little because nobody cares. Very few people anyway. But why is that stopping you from enjoying the games? The games are available to watch (at least as much as most other countries) and the news is available via the web. So what beef do you have? Are you so insecure that you need millions of people following the same things as you in order to enjoy it?

john tv

11-13-2006, 06:15 PM

Why don't you stick to that who,,,,re Bush. Anyway here we go again.I came to Canada in 1960 and at that time the NFL was not the biggest thing.Yes i got hooked on the monday night football and yes I got sucked in by Baseball.Hockey was my favourate sport. I did see some college games in Holland. My very best friend in Holland was an American yes from texas,who was in the Marine corps. They had those films sent over and all the marines watched them like religion.They did not care one bit about soccer. At that time i even sort of agreed with them, that the college game was exhiting,specialy all that hoopla. Never saw that at any dutch soccer games.
I played cricket in holland,sort of the summer game and in between soccer. Soccer is not being played at all in the summer time.I fell in love with hockey so obviously i was totally under the North American influence even liked Kent cigarettes better as well as salem.
My change took place when I saw these Ruskies being much better or let's say much better skilled hockey players. being brainwashed by this society I felt it to be my duty to alert the North American to the power of soccer. I have been extremely succesfull in doing so. I even belief if I had not things would be different and the secret would have stayed that way and many more europeans would have benefitted from this advantage.
All I am fighting for is the recognition of soccer first for our canadian kids so that they have their heroes and see a future in the game and not only in Europe and secand that we have an even playing field so that our kids have that same common denominator and will be just as skilled and for that matter don't loose their jobs to those Euro's.
That is why I want the media to write more about Canadian soccer to ensure that we continue to see our kids in that game. To make sure that this soccer thing does not disappear.
My dream will be that this country have their own soccer players that our kids look up to and can see here in toronto as well as montreal and Vancouver.
The media todate has no use for our game and even are suspicious of it's power. May it overtake hockey.
So that's it in a nutshell, we must convert the media to adopt soccer as one of the main Canadian games.
This going back thing is not called for at all.

dbailey62

11-13-2006, 09:04 PM

matthew

11-14-2006, 12:47 AM

quote:Originally posted by Ben Knight
[brYou're going to see beat reporters assigned to Toronto FC by the Star and the Sun. The Globe won't consider the games a national story, so they'll pick up wire copy (except in John's neighbourhood, where we'll run lawn bowling scores from Moose Jaw in six-point type.

Thanks for the laugh Ben. And for outing me, now John knows I'm the one sending him the lawn bowling in his paper.

Not only could I send John lawn bowling scores from Moose Jaw, I could send him whole stories about lawn bowling.

I hate my life. ;)

United in the consipracy . . .

cheers,
matthew

nolando

11-14-2006, 08:24 AM

I don't know why but Benny's (great nicknames come out of great moments - remember, "Larry"??) backhanded statement about how MLS could fail in Toronto made me think almost immediately of the Vancouver Grizzlies. Don't know why I didn't think of it before. Scary thought, I know, but there are comparisons, namely a fickle town that likes winners and doesn't really support losers, the survival of a building that isn't really contingent upon the said sports franchise's own survival, and a team that will have have trouble finding the right "marketable" players..In a sense, there are no perfect players for the market (save a Totti or a Shevchenko type) AND not to mention the great unspoken truth - I love him, but is Jim Brennan really going to be the face of Toronto MLS...Does anybody beyond his old schoolmates and the odd Voyageur even know who the heck he is?? Think Big Country Reeves for the Grizzlies. I'm not really sure that ********** or JD2 wouyld even sell out the building regularly on their own accord, given the average Canadian (and Torontonian) soccer fan. I can just see them saying now, "well, he's no Totti, that's for sure"...

Rudi

11-14-2006, 10:06 AM

quote:Originally posted by nolando

a fickle town that likes winners and doesn't really support losers
Yes, because the Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup every year. [8)]

Daniel

11-14-2006, 11:02 AM

So is it a given every john tv-started thread is unusable for any kind of useful discussion and disintegrates from the moment he first posts?

john tv

11-14-2006, 08:53 PM

OK Danny as I was saying there was not a word about that final on the Star and Globe. Apparently there was in the toronto edition,hey I live in the Boon docks,but certainly not a word in the Globe. This is a national newspaper and it simply makes no sense unless you are a racist, sorry I mean somebody who dislikes soccer for some peculiar and emotional reasons that should not exist.
Hey I am only fighting for soccer and what the hell is wrong with that. I wish I had more support on this board,we really could go places and ensure that we are recognized and foremost that our kids and I mean our future realize that somebody cares. I guess if you don't have children you won't understand.

amacpher

11-15-2006, 11:54 AM

quote:Originally posted by john tv

Hey I am only fighting for soccer and what the hell is wrong with that.

You say that, yet you have Leafs season tickets. If everyone spent 10 times more money and time on hockey than on soccer, like you, soccer would be .... well... pretty much as (un)popular as it currently is in Canada.

Note: whining on a message board to a few dozen people (who all already like soccer) is not doing any good for the sport

john tv

11-20-2006, 10:22 PM

Hey Ami baby first of all I wonder what your response could have been on my observation about the USA.
There was no word about that final in the important papers.I venture to say that soccer has cost me well over $ 500 if not more. So just be carefull when you make statements,just check the facts before you open your bl... mouth. Yes soccer will be very succesfull in Toronto and yes it will one day be as big as any other and yes this will happen in the US as well. In my lifetime I don't know,but it will.The reasons are something that include feelings and understandings that have never surfaced in our society and a natural by product of that game.It is truly amazing and will be amazing to see what is going to happen. My only well documented fear is the Toronto media. They will fight this thing tooth and nail and that is were we come into the picture. Yes we the Voyageurs can and will make the difference . There are to many of us to be ignored and if we ever get organized watch out,we can and will move mountains if we have to.