Group E - June 17 - Italy vs United States [R]

[DJT]

First Round — Group E

ITALY vs UNITED STATES

Saturday, June 17
12:00 PM PDT / 1:00 PM MDT / 2:00 PM CDT / 3:00 PM EDT / 4:00 PM ADT / 4:30 PM NDT / 9:00 PM CET
Kaiserslautern

Live Television:

OMNI 1 (Italian)
RDS
Sportsnet

Repeat Television:

6:00 PM PDT
7:00 PM MDT
8:00 PM CDT
9:00 PM EDT
10:00 PM ADT
10:30 PM NDT
- Sportsnet Ontario, West & Pacific

10:00 PM PDT
11:00 PM MDT
12:00 AM CDT
1:00 AM EDT
2:00 AM ADT
2:30 AM NDT
- Sportsnet East

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Eddie Pope is useless.

[sKriSh]

This has been a very weird game so far.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by sKriSh

This has been a very weird game so far.


Ya. What's going on? Good call by the official. Very deserved despite the protestations.

db

[DoyleG]

No doubt the remarks by Eddie Johnson had soemthing to do with what's going on here.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=369506

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62


quote:Originally posted by sKriSh

This has been a very weird game so far.


Ya. What's going on? Good call by the official. Very deserved despite the protestations.

db


.... and now an even-up call. A yellow for sure! A red? Only if you're a referee looking for an even-up opportunity.

db

[sKriSh]

I keep switching between the Sportsnet and ABC coverage. The American coverage is horrible.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Wow-this referee should work for CONCACAF-what an absolute tool. 10 v 9 after the third red card?

He's making himself the story, the twat.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Oh, and the diving, childish, stupid antics of the Italians aren't helping.

They really piss me off.

[snowsoccer]

It proves that two people can see the same thing differently. I believe that all three red cards were deserved and cudos to the ref who has decided that lunging at people's feet to tackle is dangerous and will not be tolerated.

It was amusing to see the disagreement on this matter on TSN between Dick Howard and the keeper analyst (whats his name?) I agree with Dick Howard.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

It wasn't malicious-Mastreoni deserved a yellow.


/ref's still a joke.

[Canuck Oranje]

At 75 min, I think Arena needs to bring in Johnson for Mcbride to freshen things up front. At 9 v 10, that means it might even the sides a little.

[speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by snowsoccer

It proves that two people can see the same thing differently. I believe that all three red cards were deserved and cudos to the ref who has decided that lunging at people's feet to tackle is dangerous and will not be tolerated.

It was amusing to see the disagreement on this matter on TSN between Dick Howard and the keeper analyst (whats his name?) I agree with Dick Howard.



Well to some extent I agree. What I don't agree with is that there is no F'N way Brazil or some other top flight team would have got Two reds for those infractions.

The Italians fall down exactly the same way every time they are touched. It's disgusting.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42


quote:Originally posted by snowsoccer

It proves that two people can see the same thing differently. I believe that all three red cards were deserved and cudos to the ref who has decided that lunging at people's feet to tackle is dangerous and will not be tolerated.

It was amusing to see the disagreement on this matter on TSN between Dick Howard and the keeper analyst (whats his name?) I agree with Dick Howard.



Well to some extent I agree. What I don't agree with is that there is no F'N way Brazil or some other top flight team would have got Two reds for those infractions.

The Italians fall down exactly the same way every time they are touched. It's disgusting.


That opinion entered my mind as well. It's like being a rookie in the NBA. The officials will always give the veteran benefit of the doubt. That's sort of what happend today IMO.

db

[speedmonk42]

I thought those players in the second half made a pretty damn heroic effort given the task.

They were just destroyed at the end of it.

I wanted the Americans to do well just so the final two games in this group would be worth watching.

And now they are!!!!

[Gian-Luca]

I should have known better than to expect Italy to come out play as well as they can to win the game & likely the group, oh no, they have to make things difficult. I don't know why they came out flat, but they did. They still could have won, and had yet another goal wrongfully disallowed for offside, from Gattuso of all people!

I think the fouls that led to the reds were all much more stupid than viscious, but difficult to argue with them. You might quibble that Mastroeni's might have been a yellow with a different Ref, but a stupid reckless late two-foot challenge it was all the same. Craig Forrest is always hard on Italians so I'm not surprised he disagreed with Dick Howard, but it's difficult to take the comment "I don't know where the 2nd foot was" seriously - have you tried looking at the end of the leg, Craig? The stupidity of Pope's was incredible for a guy with supposedly all this experience. He could see that this was a card happy Ref who punished players more severly than others would, he was already on a yellow and he's seen what happened to his colleague in the first half with the straight red, why on earth would you make such a rash challenge? Stupid stupid stupid.

An interesting & eventful game, but not the greatest played one from an Italian fan's stand point, especially the wonderful own goal from Zaccardo.

[River City]

On the bright side, now Zaccardo can say he's scored at the World Cup.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by snowsoccer

It proves that two people can see the same thing differently. I believe that all three red cards were deserved and cudos to the ref who has decided that lunging at people's feet to tackle is dangerous and will not be tolerated.

It was amusing to see the disagreement on this matter on TSN between Dick Howard and the keeper analyst (whats his name?) I agree with Dick Howard.


I am not a Dick Howard fan. Not by a long shot but I think he nailed it. Red was maybe harsh, another man would have only cautioned but Howard is still spot on all the same. That's a wicked height for a spikes 1st, two footed slider. Intent or not, ankles and foot bones go pop. I was yelling at Forrest after his commentary. Crazy talk.

He was right about the U.S. of A bouncing back and showing life after that 3-nil drubbing. But,,, I think the Italians made that as much possible as anything the Yanks did. It's rare tests like this where you'll find me cheering on U.S. football. And then just barely.

Ghana may prove a very hard test for the Yanks. They're gonna match up very well against aggresive defending but hopefully the U.S. has found their stride.

[Start fan in exile]

All of a sudden Ghana look like the class of the group. Who'd'a thunk?

For Italy-Czech - both teams are their own worst enemy, and so it will depend on which personality shows up for each.

I think the US played as well as they could today and it won't be enough to beat Ghana.

I'm rooting for Ghana and Czech to the 2nd round!

[snowsoccer]

Just can't figure out Italian soccer. Is it the coaching? Their style? The pressure? New World soccer parity- everybody is catching up? The Juventus gambler is betting against Italy? If Italy loses to Czech, guess what? Buh Bye.

This is happening far too often to consider it a fluke.

USA is supposed to b a country that worships fat sports.

Somebody is going to get stuffed in a car trunk in Italy.

[Jeffery S.]

The States made Italy look badly at times, and that hurts Italy not just for the next game (which they should win) but the rest of the tournament. Italy is not getting good performances from Totti, Del Piero, even Gilardino was discreet today, while De Rossi was just rash (he was also the author of the 2 non-called, possible penalties in the Ghana game, if I recall, and I am not saying I am sure they were penalties). You can't be called a favourite if you have 3-5 players under par and starting nonetheless.

Thought the US finally got some decent performances, like from Cherundolo, Keller was good, Donovan had flashes but does not really participate in the flow of the play. Still not a team with great finishing, so will be hard for them to score a few, if necessary, vs. Ghana when thus far none of the players have scored even one.

I personally think the ref was spot on, he was sure about his decisions and consistent. I agree that you could always call one or the other of the direct reds a yellow, or at least pull out a yellow (especially if you have not seen McBride's blood yet, and the ref was behind the play, did not see his face), but in FIFA rules anyone showing a yellow there will have to face some serious complaints.

Message to EPL fans: late tackles spikes up to ankles are not manly or acceptable as part of being a competitive footballer. Since the Brits have half the spots on the International Board, the least they can do is respect the rules they themselves have come up with over the years. Like no trying to deliberately hurt your fellow competitor with no intention of looking for the ball. A classic reason why English teams can be frustrated in international club games and national team tournaments by having to change their styles, as often feel they are not getting the calls from international refs. Kinda like those American basketball players at the World Basketball championships and Olympics lately: FIBA rules could not give a damn about "showtime".

[Cheeta]

Thought Cherundolo had a great match. And I hate to admit it but even Keller and Donavan seemed solid. Nothing more, but still all the same solid. Donavan was very disaplined and picked his spots as opportunity allowed. On a pitch with 20 outfield players he may not be able to pull that off, but hopefully we'll yet see.

Thought Dempsey and Onyewu were pretty good. If Gooch isn't in Europe this fall than he's a bloody idiot.

Don't quite know what to make of the Italians except that they spend far too much time appealing to the ref. Thought maybe Del Piero could exploit all that extra space out there but that reasoning was clearly faulty.

Shame about the Beasley goal getting called back but in truth it was a no-brainer and Arena should have no complaints with anyone except McBride (who is an absolute soilder by the way. Makes it impossible for Arena to leave him off a squad otherwise built on speedier players).

[Ashton Gate]

I started off hoping Italy would turn on the class today to match Spain and Argentina (and possibly divert attention from alleged corruption/referee manipulation in their domestic league). With Italy up 1-0 and looking to kick on however, De Rossi's vicious elbow to McBride's face was the lowest point of this world cup so far, which up until now has been mightily entertaining. Full marks to McBride, he took it well, and USA for holding Italy whilst down a player. The USA can have no real complaints about their red cards or the disallowed goal.

I found De Rossi's prissy attempts to convince the referee he was innocent to be pathetic. By half time the continual diving, play acting and fake protestations of innocence from some of the Italian players (though by no means all) certainly had me rooting for a big upset from the USA.

USA's gutsy effort will reflect well on CONCACAF, Italy's approach was disappointing.

[Ashton Gate]

Correction: 1-1 when DeRossi got the elbow up!

[Ashton Gate]

I guess Lippi was pretty dissapointed too:
Lippi fumes at Italy performance (BBC Sport)

Italy coach Marcello Lippi was left seething by his side's performance in the 1-1 draw with the United States.
"I'm disappointed and angry," said Lippi, after 10-man Italy failed to beat the US, who had two men sent off.

"We didn't go into this match in the right frame of mind and we paid for that with the nervous way we played and with the mistakes we made."

Lippi said of the red-carded Daniele De Rossi: "I'm sorry as he's a good kid but he's made the umpteenth mistake."

The Roma midfielder was dismissed for elbowing Brian McBride in the face in the 28th minute, shortly after the USA had equalised.

"I'm sorry for myself, my team and the fans," said the 22-year-old.

"I didn't intend to harm him. I talked with him and now I'm hoping the punishment isn't too harsh. I feel terrible about it. I explained what happened with McBride and he was very kind."

Lippi added: "We didn't play our best game. It was simply not our night.

"My players got nervous and they made very serious mistakes, like that of De Rossi.

"That was a very serious error and we paid the consequences."

Lippi admitted the Americans were the stronger team, despite their two red cards.

"They were very organised, went out really motivated, determined to get a result," he said.

"They showed a lot of quality and heart and this result leaves everything up in the air.

"But it's not a negative result. I am happy that today our World Cup starts because this is a wake-up call for us. From now on is simply a case of being in or out."

Italian midfielder Gennaro Gattuso added: "We weren't brilliant."

Italy had won their opening Group E game in style when they beat Ghana 2-0, but Lippi's side were unable to repeat that level of control against the US.

"It just goes to show how you've got to keep your feet on the ground, even after winning your first match," said Gattuso, who came on as a substitute for Francesco Totti after De Rossi's first-half dismissal.

[wildboy26]

I hope the Czechs now beat Italy and sends the U.S home. I would like the U.S to not advance, all their talking and cockiness, and their bogus #4 World ranking.

[speedmonk42]

It seems impossible for the US to go through with the GD they have.

They would need Italy to lose, they need to beat Ghana and 5-6 goals need to be scored between the two games.

I think.

[terpfan68]

Hey, did you watch the same game. They showed a lot of grit out on the field. If they do go out they have nothing to be ashamed of. They proved they belonged in the wc today and since all four teams could still advance we know which group was the real group of death. If this was an african side that played italy to a draw eveyone would be singing their praises. I hope the winner of the USA Ghana match advances.

[Grizzly]

The US may not be the 4th best team in the world but would people be bitching so much if Italy was ranked number 4? The Czechs are ranked 2nd but lost convincingly to 48th ranked Ghana. 6 of the teams ranked from 11 to 20 did not even qualify and of the 4 that did only Germany has been impressive. I agree the ranking system is crap but people are very selective about which of the faulty rankings they complain about.

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

The US may not be the 4th best team in the world but would people be bitching so much if Italy was ranked number 4? The Czechs are ranked 2nd but lost convincingly to 48th ranked Ghana. 6 of the teams ranked from 11 to 20 did not even qualify and of the 4 that did only Germany has been impressive. I agree the ranking system is crap but people are very selective about which of the faulty rankings they complain about.


ya but the US ranking is clearly the most erroneous, so it stick out in peoples minds.

[sstackho]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

It seems impossible for the US to go through with the GD they have.

They would need Italy to lose, they need to beat Ghana and 5-6 goals need to be scored between the two games.

I think.


The U.S. would prefer for Italy to win. An Italy win over the Czechs and a U.S. win over Ghana and the Yanks make it through.

[Grizzly]

It is not even close to the most erroneous. The two teams tied for 11th did not even make it to the World Cup. So far the US has lost to the 2nd ranked team and tied a traditional European power ranked 13th while down a man (in my opinion unjustly so, the first red I can live with but the second red was too harsh) for a half. The US may be 8 spots too high but Denmark is probably 20 to 30 spots too high and noone is complaining about that. I could make a large list of teams far more overrated in this ranking system than the US.

[terpfan68]

Will any other group reach the final day with all four teams having a chance to advance? Of course if you just make it in you probably get the honour of playing Brazil unless Australia pulls the biggest upset in soccer history.

I know if that would have been Canada out there today playing Italy for a half down a man I would have been estatic. (Go Oilers)

[BearcatSA]

I'm not a big fan of the US of A but I thought they played really well, beginning with the team selection. Arena's bringing in a natural left fullback in Bocanegra in place of the positionally-challenged Eddie Lewis was a good move; he had some poor passes, but so did Lewis in the first game, and offensive skill is suppose to be his forte. The US took it to the Italians for most of the first half and they fought well throughout the match.

One thing clear in my mind is, regardless of whether you agree with the second yellow/red card he received, "the Pope" is past it. Unless he's nursing an injury that we are unaware of, he looked a big liability out there. You can argue this if you want, but he looks like a guy who relied on his natural athletic ability in his younger days, but now that he's lost that yard of pace, he doesn't seem to have the tactical acumen to position himself accordingly to make up for it. Today, it seemed that he took alot of fouls after getting beaten. I'll guess his 82nd cap will be his last.

Beasley still didn't impress me, and I know that's pretty harsh for me to say considering that his side was down to 9 men and he did have a good crack on the disallowed goal. Now he looks like a guy out of form: as with the Czech game, he had some dubious first touches and his first pass as a substitute was one that came with sirens and a flashing red light! Looks like a guy with confidence issues.

[BearcatSA]

Having sad that Bocanegra was a better defensive fullback than Lewis, I seemed to have forgotten that it was he who put his defensive header off of Keller's woodwork! Oops, my bad! I still think he was a better choice at left back.

[Bxl Boy]

You have physical play and physical play
Ghana showed us the greatest apect of it : great runs, great duels, great tackles, physical but so “ball-oriented”
US showed us the awful physical play : “man-oriented”. They were like butchers on the field. Almost 20 fouls in the first half ! That's more than most of the teams in a whole game. And the ref let them do... I understand the Italians got angry !
Even Portugal and Uruguay are more fair play than that...
We can't let do that at a World Cup, it was the US horror show.

[Rudi]

Haha are you serious Bxl Boy?

The Italians were the worst bunch of prissy divers thus far in the tourname. If the US had 20 fouls in the first half, 15 of them were a result of Italian 'simulation'.

Oh, and Cheeta, Gooch is already in Europe. He plays for Standard Liege in Belgium.

[pstain]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta



Thought Dempsey and Onyewu were pretty good. If Gooch isn't in Europe this fall than he's a bloody idiot.



Gooch is in Europe. He plays for Standard in Belgium and is rumoured to join Middlesborough.

[Grizzly]

Not even the Italian press agrees with you assessment Bxl. Note almost across the board better marks for the Americans from these Italian match ratings:

ITALIA
Buffon G. 6

Cannavaro F. 5.5

Nesta A. 6.5

Zaccardo C. 4

Zambrotta G. 6.5

De Rossi D. 3

Perrotta S. 4

Pirlo A. 7

Totti F. 5

Gilardino A. 6

Toni L. 4

Gattuso G. 6.5

Del Piero A. 6

Iaquinta V. 5

Coach- Lippi M. 6

USA

Keller K. 7

Bocanegra C. 7

Cherundolo S. 7.5

Mastroeni P. 4

Onyewu O. 6.5

Pope E. 5

Convey B. 7

Dempsey C. 7

Donovan L. 8

Reyna C. 7

Mc Bride B. 5

Conrad J. 7

Beasley D. 6.5


Coach Arena B. 8

[Massive Attack]

Wow, what a game.

Anyone who thinks that the officiating was good needs to have their head examined. On top of how the first official ruined the game with his card-happiness, there must have been 10 perfectly good runs called offside. FIFA should be embarrassed about this display by its officials (By the way, the referee for this match was suspended for the 2002 WC by Uruguay for 'irregularities')

As for the match, Italy played like crap. They scored the goal against the run of play. They were then outplayed for most of the game, including the second half, despite being a man up. I was so excited and hopeful after Italy's display against Ghana, but now I'm not so sure about this team.

As for the USA, they really earned my respect after this match. I wonder if all their detractors will finally shut up after this gutsy performance.

[speedmonk42]

there must have been 10 perfectly good runs called offside.
--------------


Huh? Wow I didn't see 10 badly called offside calls.

[Gian-Luca]

I'd distinguish between the Ref & the linesmen in this case. Most of us were saying that the Ref was spot on with the red cards, but yes, half the alleged Italian offside calls were incorrect, including one that lead to yet another disallowed goal, and that's the responsibility of the linesmen.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Not even the Italian press agrees with you assessment Bxl. Note almost across the board better marks for the Americans from these Italian match ratings:


Yes, but keep in mind these rankings don't reflect what Bxl Boy was saying about the number of fouls the US committed, and in any event, the Italian press is notorious for being harsher on Italy than anyone else (with the possible exception of Craig Forrest) is.

Not that I disagree with the rankings mind you (though Bruce Arena probably deserves -3 for his ridiculous antics on the sideline, it made me wonder what Holger & Yallop could have said to get red-carded so quickly in their day when Arena was allowed to run around screaming like a madman complaining about correct calls & got nothing for it).

[speedmonk42]

Everyone in the Cafe I was at saw only one clearly inncorrect call.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Not even the Italian press agrees with you assessment Bxl. Note almost across the board better marks for the Americans from these Italian match ratings:


Yes, but keep in mind these rankings don't reflect what Bxl Boy was saying about the number of fouls the US committed, and in any event, the Italian press is notorious for being harsher on Italy than anyone else (with the possible exception of Craig Forrest) is.

Not that I disagree with the rankings mind you (though Bruce Arena probably deserves -3 for his ridiculous antics on the sideline, it made me wonder what Holger & Yallop could have said to get red-carded so quickly in their day when Arena was allowed to run around screaming like a madman complaining about correct calls & got nothing for it).


What BXL was implying was that the US got this result not by their soccer skills but by bullying the Italian team. The number of fouls were caused not by the American style of play but by an Italian team set on using a poor quality card happy ref to their full advantage by diving. This poor ref hurt the Americans far more than the Italians in my opinion (not just in the calls made but in how one has to adjust ones play) so this is no excuse for the result. I will always choose to root for a physical team than a team that is openly cheating.

[Reza]

After watching this game, I think USA will one day in the next 20 years do something major in the world cup..maybe not win it, but for sure, get up there into the final 4 or final 2.

Their first match wasn't a real indicator as they just didn't show up, but they did really well in this one. They were playing one of the top 6 footballing nations in the world and for nearly half the game they were down 1. When you look back to Italy'90 or USA'94, they have come so far. Give or take another 12-16 yrs, they will be a real tough one to deal with.

[ken]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly


quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Not even the Italian press agrees with you assessment Bxl. Note almost across the board better marks for the Americans from these Italian match ratings:


Yes, but keep in mind these rankings don't reflect what Bxl Boy was saying about the number of fouls the US committed, and in any event, the Italian press is notorious for being harsher on Italy than anyone else (with the possible exception of Craig Forrest) is.

Not that I disagree with the rankings mind you (though Bruce Arena probably deserves -3 for his ridiculous antics on the sideline, it made me wonder what Holger & Yallop could have said to get red-carded so quickly in their day when Arena was allowed to run around screaming like a madman complaining about correct calls & got nothing for it).


What BXL was implying was that the US got this result not by their soccer skills but by bullying the Italian team. The number of fouls were caused not by the American style of play but by an Italian team set on using a poor quality card happy ref to their full advantage by diving. This poor ref hurt the Americans far more than the Italians in my opinion (not just in the calls made but in how one has to adjust ones play) so this is no excuse for the result. I will always choose to root for a physical team than a team that is openly cheating.


As well there seems to be an attitude that physical play is a greater offense to the game than diving. Leaving aside the question of whether the first american red should have been a red or yellow, all the cards deserved to be a card of some sort and were called, but there were no cards for diving. To my knowledge the only yellow for diving in the whole tournament was to Robben. Have you ever seen a situation where a diving yellow was the second yellow leading to ejection? If the refs don't punish the players and teams that dive then they will continue to do so.

[Bxl Boy]

For the physical play, we have a good comparison
The same day, Ghana played very physical too, against the Czechs
But it was beautiful, very well done, without the goal of taking the ball AND the man
For me, the differnece between both teams and plays was obvious

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

What BXL was implying was that the US got this result not by their soccer skills but by bullying the Italian team. The number of fouls were caused not by the American style of play but by an Italian team set on using a poor quality card happy ref to their full advantage by diving.

I'm not sure that he was implying that, and certainly I don't think the US got a result as a dividend of their rough play but rather their improved play & effort. However, the implication that the US didn't actually committ their fouls & that it was actually all just Italians diving is equally erroneous - just ask the ankle of Andrea Pirlo. There was obvious contact on every US card. The US players got themselves sent off through their own actions, not that of the Italians. And everyone, including Mr. Pope, should have been aware how strict the Ref was card-wise 4 minutes into the match when he harshly booked Totti for a fairly innocuous looking challenge.

[terpfan68]

for bxl boy I somewhat agree that the Ghana Czech game was a better display of football for the youth than the italy US game, but Ghana is currently leading the WC with yellow cards with 8 and the US only has 4 and is much farther down the list. check out

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/w/stats/detail.html?section=tdc

plus the US is much lower in fouls committed than ghana

[Bxl Boy]

That's why statistics are like bikinis : they show almost everything but hide the essential !

[canso]

"Have you ever seen a situation where a diving yellow was the second yellow leading to ejection?"

Francesco Totti, lasty World Cup in Korea against the home team. Tried to get a penalty for diving in extra time and the ref gave him his second yellow and his walking papers!

[canso]

by diving in extra time I meant to say.

Whatever. Italy has the potential to play a beautiful game with their talent and style but they always let me down with the diving and play acting and dirty little fouls behind the refs back and spitting in people's faces.

[Jarrek]

quote:their bogus #4 World ranking.

So you're going to blame the US for being ranked 4th by FIFA?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by canso

"Have you ever seen a situation where a diving yellow was the second yellow leading to ejection?"

Francesco Totti, lasty World Cup in Korea against the home team. Tried to get a penalty for diving in extra time and the ref gave him his second yellow and his walking papers!




Don't give me that. He didn't dive in extra time, he was tackled - legally, but he was still tackled. The Ref was some fat corrupt bastard who was 40 yards away from the play, having a hot dog or something on the sidelines, and felt still felt the need to make a call from that distance without the aid of binoculars he would have needed.

A very poor example to use!

[Vancouver Fan]

I just wanted to add that when Italy were down a man Lippi removed Totti in favour of defensive minded Gattuso. I don't know,maybe Lippi at that moment wanted to preserve at least 1 valuable point and keep the U S from getting all 3? Little did he know that a few minutes later he would be up by 1 player.Funny how the game changes so suddenly. Not that Totti would have made that big of difference as he had not yet made his mark on the game but I believe that was the point in the game where Italy thought lets get out of here with a point a no more cards. I am an Italian fan as well but one thing I've learned over the years is that the Azzuri are the most conservative team around. They'd rather take the point they have than risk losing all 3. In WC tournaments those tactics usaually pay off in the first round. The round of 16 however,with PKs is different.

[Ashton Gate]

Italy captain Fabio Cannavaro says "the Azurri need a return to their old 'cynical' methods to succeed at this World Cup". (Daily Mail)

Although just a newspaper report, its not clear whether the Italian skipper's visionary statement pertains to influencing referee selection or antics on the field of play or maybe both??

In any case Italy are doomed to failure as Nostradamus has already foretold a Spanish win:

Spanish daily 20 Minutos claims Nostradamus tipped Spain to win the World Cup. It quotes one of his prophecies as follows: "In the sixth month of 2006 the King of Spain will cross the Pyrenees with his troops. The legions of Beelzebub will battle him in central Europe and suffer doom and destruction. The Holy Grail will then come to Spain." (Press Association)

[BrennanFan]

and here I thought the holy grail was the living heir/descendant of the bloodline started by the marriage between Jesus Christ and Mary Magdelene.

[marktci]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca


quote:Originally posted by canso

"Have you ever seen a situation where a diving yellow was the second yellow leading to ejection?"

Francesco Totti, lasty World Cup in Korea against the home team. Tried to get a penalty for diving in extra time and the ref gave him his second yellow and his walking papers!


Don't give me that. He didn't dive in extra time, he was tackled - legally, but he was still tackled. The Ref was some fat corrupt bastard who was 40 yards away from the play, having a hot dog or something on the sidelines, and felt still felt the need to make a call from that distance without the aid of binoculars he would have needed.

A very poor example to use!


Be that as it may, it in no way invalidates that it was the second yellow given for diving. Whether deserved or not is irrelevant.