Inter Toronto FC - Toronto MLS clubs' new name?

[MM2]

According to some on Bigsoccer this will be the name of the MLS team.

[Richard]

Can't really say I am into Inter Toronto :-)

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Can't really say I am into Inter Toronto :-)


I definitely do not like it but then I hated Blizzard at first.

[Marc]

Ouch that's bad.

[Steve B]

Awful - really, really, really awful. Good God that is so bad. Truly tragic. They have also applied for Northmen which is much much better. Not a pathetic rip-off a la Real Salt Lake. We will be a laughing stock if they use Inter.

Check out the trademark database at and search on Inter Toronto:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cipo/trademarks/search/tmSearch.do?language=eng

I love the list of "wares" including underwear, leotards and diapers.

Sorry, but this stupid, stupid name will ruin MLSE's expected logo-laden leotard and diaper sales.

Please MLSE - I beg you not to use this name.

[Jarrek]

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cipo/trademarks/search/viewTrademark.do;jsessionid=0000u2lm3NrRPOT1bRyVv-G5r8X:vjite1ad?language=eng&fileNumber=1293794&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1

Oh God no, it's true.

What a horrible name.

[Jarrek]

The domain has been registered by MLSE.

http://www.whois.sc/InterTorontoFc.com

[Jarrek]

But, they also have applied for TorontoFC ... http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cipo/trademarks/search/viewTrademark.do;jsessionid=0000LRD6PFVmbsVA48EoJI 7dxzL:vjite1ad?language=eng&fileNumber=1293792&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1

[sstackho]

But "Inter Toronto FC" appears to be the only name that MLS applied for a trademark in the U.S. :(

[Steve B]

... and Northmen

[Alex]

If you look through it also looks as though Toronto FC is proposed as well. MLSE has about 90 trademarks on there, its pretty interesting.

But id have to say I like Northmen the best.

[Marc]

Northmen is not bad actually.

[Jarrek]

Toronto Northmen FC

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/app/cipo/trademarks/search/viewTrademark.do;jsessionid=0000SCLttu3_LJR7ARVrZG h8Hx1:vjite1ad?language=eng&fileNumber=1293793&extension=0&startingDocumentIndexOnPage=1

[Jarrek]

I don't like Northmen.

Would prefer City.

[DoyleG]

I think the Rapids have the default colours already.

[sKriSh]

It's not a great name, but it's not bad. At least it has Real Salt Lake beat.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by sKriSh

It's not a great name, but it's not bad. At least it has Real Salt Lake beat.


As the worst name.

[Steve B]

From a March 12th article on MLSE CEO Richard Peddie:

"A stickler when it comes to research, Peddie knows that many local teams -- with the exception of Steve Stavro's Toronto City of the 1960s -- have failed in the promotion of soccer. But as a calculating businessman, Peddie figured out that the new MLSEL team, yet to be named, has a good chance to succeed. "

Research? Are you telling me that "Inter Toronto" is the product of research? Morons.

[Passive Observer]

I guess it could be worse.

I would have had no issues if the name of the club was Toronto International Football Club and they used "Inter-Toronto" as the nickname for marketing purposes. Inter Toronto FC comes across as a cheap rip off of Inter-Milan and has little significance to the internationalness of the city of Toronto

[Franky]

there was a team that went by Toronto Internationals in the old CPSL 1983 season, folded halfway through the year.

[Franky]

also, i personally don't fancy the Inter Toronto name. Since, i am a Juve supporter and Inter Milan being a dreaded arch rival, not to mention, i have friends/family around me that are huge Inter fans, it doesn't bode well for my reaction.

However, if that is the name then, either way, they got my support because it is better than supporting the Lynx and watching USL soccer.

[TOareaFan]

I have liked Inter since day one. We are a city of people from around the world so our "international" status can not be disputed....certainly in the trend of Euro naming for MLS teams this is at least one that fits the city's identity.

[Gian-Luca]

No matter what name they chose, there was always going to be howls of derision & protests from people calling it the worst name ever. Its par for the course. Inter Toronto has been mooted from a long way back, not my choice but hardly anything as idiotic sounding as Real Salt Lake - I would agree with TOareaFan that its fits the city's identity far more than "Real" fits Salt Lake. If that is the name of course - I will still wait for an official announcement.

[MM2]

quote:Originally posted by Franky

there was a team that went by Toronto Internationals in the old CPSL 1983 season, folded halfway through the year.


Actually the team was called the Toronto Nationals, the Montreal team went by Inter-Montreal FC

[zacRWE]

Im not sure on Northmen. That is pretty bad too, the Peter North(men) maybe?
Toronto FC is the best there, but City is the way to go!

[Varsity Tyler]

My $0.02

- If the three, Toronto FC is the best.
- the three trademarks are numbered 792, 793 and 794 ... Toronto FC is #792, so maybe they registered that one first because they really really wanted it : )

- Toronto Blizzard (TM) has been abandoned
- Toronto City (TM) is open, as is Toronto Internationals

[Metro]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

No matter what name they chose, there was always going to be howls of derision & protests from people calling it the worst name ever. Its par for the course. Inter Toronto has been mooted from a long way back, not my choice but hardly anything as idiotic sounding as Real Salt Lake - I would agree with TOareaFan that its fits the city's identity far more than "Real" fits Salt Lake. If that is the name of course - I will still wait for an official announcement.


I agree with you and TOareafan about the name fitting the city's identity. But I believe if they're going to take the "international" route, then perhaps they should name the club Toronto International FC and not face allegations of copying Inter Milan's name.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Pretty sure that would still be copying. I'm no online dictionary, but Inter-national sounds a lot like 'Inter-nazionale' to me. Still, it could be way worse. I like City slightly better, but it is likely more inaccurate than Inter. City would imply there's a United or some other team in the metro region. I don't think Lynx will we around long enough to support the opposition.

[G-Man]

Are Italians not the largest "ETHNIC" group in Toronto with about 500,000. It must have took 2 minutes for the MLSE marketing gods to with an Italian sounding name. Just be thankful that the team wasn't named Roma Toronto or that the Turkish community wasn't the largest "ETHNIC" group.

the team would have been named the Toronto Turkey's.

New book at chapters:

MLSE- How to pander to the largest ETHNIC group and still fail.

[MegasAlexandros]

Actually, for a Turkish team name you'd get Torontospor :P

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Are Italians not the largest "ETHNIC" group in Toronto with about 500,000. It must have took 2 minutes for the MLSE marketing gods to with an Italian sounding name. Just be thankful that the team wasn't named Roma Toronto or that the Turkish community wasn't the largest "ETHNIC" group.

the team would have been named the Toronto Turkey's.

New book at chapters:

MLSE- How to pander to the largest ETHNIC group and still fail.


Perhaps it is being considered as a hook to the Italian community but remember, not everyone in the Italian community are Inter fans....from walking around the city and outlying regions It would appear to me that the most popular teams in the community are Juventus, AC Milan and Roma.....besides, this non-italian feels that the name is appropriate and fitting.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by MegasAlexandros

Actually, for a Turkish team name you'd get Torontospor :P


Now that has a ring to it. And of course Turkish Ultras are the craziest fanatical of all ultras.

Torontospor. Can't get more ETHNIC than that!

I love it. These guys could be their main sponsor:

http://www.lavasheskisehir.com/default.asp

[Jeffery S.]

Basically agree with those posting to the effect that if it were Toronto International or Internationals that would be fine, not the best, but fine. And if Inter came out of that, before or after the city name, that could be alright.

But to just take the abbreviation of Internazionale, a name only used by a single famous team in all the world (unlike your FCs and United and even Rovers and Reals), is quite stupid. Automatically you alientate all those Italian fans who are not Inter fans (just as I, as a Barça fan, have a team I hate in MLS with all my heart, a gift called Real), which is the vast majority in Toronto (maybe you'd have 5-10% of TO Italian soccer supporters originally Inter fans?). You reference a single team instead of, potentially, a number of teams, which would at least give you more options for sentimental attachments (a Betis fan could say sure, he likes Real Salt Lake, as he supports Real Betis, logical).

I think the real situation is that the folks at MLSE are really Interns and the name is a bit of self-directed irony.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Basically agree with the above post, if it were Toronto International or Internationals that would be fine, not the best, but fine. And if Inter came out of that, before or after the city name, that could be alright.

But to just take the abbreviation of Internazionale, a name only used by a single famous team in all the world (unlike your FCs and United and even Rovers and Reals), is quite stupid. Automatically you alientate all those Italian fans who are not Inter fans (just as I, as a Barça fan, have a team I hate in MLS with all my heart, a gift called Real), which is the vast majority in Toronto (maybe you'd have 5-10% of TO Italian soccer supporters originally Inter fans?). You reference a single team instead of, potentially, a number of teams, which would at least give you more options for sentimental attachments (a Betis fan could say sure, he likes Real Salt Lake, as he supports Real Betis, logical).

I think the real situation is that the folks at MLSE are really Interns and the name is a bit of self-directed irony.



I know what you are saying but, really, if you called the team United, as an example, is there anyone that would believe for a minute that the team was targetting Dundee United (or even Newcastle United) fans? No....DC United is named as such because they hoped all of those Manchester United fans would hop on board....same with Real Salt Lake....I am sure there are other small teams called "Inter" if that makes you feel any more comfortable with the name.

[Gian-Luca]

Inter Toronto is only one of the names they are looking at & have registered, we know of two others (Toronto FC & the Northmen) and there are apparently more registered names out there.

It appears these were all on the short-list for being considered & MLSE has got the trademark to protect all possibilities while they do research on them.

So it may very well not be Inter Toronto, I guess we'll find out in the weeks to come. Its not the name I'd go with personally (I prefer City of the faux Euro names that are available) but I'm not likely to lose sleep over the name if it that indeed is it.

[Bill Ault]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Inter Toronto is only one of the names they are looking at & have registered, we know of two others (Toronto FC & the Northmen) and there are apparently more registered names out there.

Inter appears at this point to be the only one filed by MLS itself in the U.S. though.

[speedmonk42]

Ok, I hope I don't get smacked around for this....

.. but what is the 'history' of the word 'Inter' with respect to soccer teams? United I get... Inter what does it mean?

It could, given the "international" nature of Toronto be a good parody with positive connotations.

By all respects Toronto could be international soccer city of planet Earth. It should be, and I hope MLSE realizes this. I mean where else can you pack the stadium for two teams that are not from the host nation? Probably not many places.

[Cooks]

If they wanted to cater to the Italian population of Toronto, why don't they just call them Forza Toronto?

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Ok, I hope I don't get smacked around for this....

.. but what is the 'history' of the word 'Inter' with respect to soccer teams? United I get... Inter what does it mean?

It could, given the "international" nature of Toronto be a good parody with positive connotations.

By all respects Toronto could be international soccer city of planet Earth. It should be, and I hope MLSE realizes this. I mean where else can you pack the stadium for two teams that are not from the host nation? Probably not many places.



Depends whose playing. Italy played Serbian and Montenegra and drew a mere 22000 last year. So Italians in Toronto won't even support the Italian National team-- let alone a lame imposter trying to cash in on the "inter" link.

Toronto is no where near being "international soccer city of the planet" as it lags behind Montreal and Vancouver in Canada let alone 50 to 70 cities in Europe.

And that is why they should call the team something hockey sounding like the Toronto SlapSHots! At least they get 2 home games in before people figured it out.

[john tv]

Inter---esting but wrong in my opinion.I don't think that the Italiens in this town will fall for this.They are way to realistic and causious as well as reserved to even take this serious. they will look upon this as a ploy and even worse the media will have a way to use this as another ethnic nock.it's to bad that they would not consider Toronto United, which if properly explained could have been a very powerfull and very meaningfull name.
Well let's just wait for the real name. there is a media conference on Apr.12 at the CNE and than we should know more.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Franky

there was a team that went by Toronto Internationals in the old CPSL 1983 season, folded halfway through the year.


I think that was the "Toronto Nationals" Franky-boy.

db

[MegasAlexandros]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Ok, I hope I don't get smacked around for this....

.. but what is the 'history' of the word 'Inter' with respect to soccer teams? United I get... Inter what does it mean?


The name "Inter" from Milan comes from Internazionale Milan. The story of why the team was named as such is kinda interesting. First came AC Milan... and although we know them as football clubs, a lot of European clubs started off as various forms of clubs or associations which eventually evolved into a football team. In the case of AC, it was an all Italian club at first. As time went on, some foreigners, Englishmen I believe, wanted to join, but the Italians stood by their Italians-only policy. So these Englishmen decided to found a club where all would be welcome.. an international club.... Internazionale. And hence the team (or club) was born.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto is no where near being "international soccer city of the planet" as it lags behind Montreal and Vancouver in Canada let alone 50 to 70 cities in Europe.
Those huge international soccer matches in Montreal and Vancouver have really been selling out Swangard and CCR lately, eh?

(Note to everyone else: this is not a shot a Montreal or Vancouver, but rather at G-Man's constant anti-Toronto stupidity)

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by MegasAlexandros


quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Ok, I hope I don't get smacked around for this....

.. but what is the 'history' of the word 'Inter' with respect to soccer teams? United I get... Inter what does it mean?


The name "Inter" from Milan comes from Internazionale Milan. The story of why the team was named as such is kinda interesting. First came AC Milan... and although we know them as football clubs, a lot of European clubs started off as various forms of clubs or associations which eventually evolved into a football team. In the case of AC, it was an all Italian club at first. As time went on, some foreigners, Englishmen I believe, wanted to join, but the Italians stood by their Italians-only policy. So these Englishmen decided to found a club where all would be welcome.. an international club.... Internazionale. And hence the team (or club) was born.


Now I don't know if this is entirely correct. Im not sure if this is true, but from what I remember, AC Milan had too many Englishmen...thus AC Milan and not AC Milano. Then Internazionale was started in response to that. I read this somewhere but I could have mixed it all up in translation.

[masster]

Well I was both right and wrong.

From Answers.com

AC Milan: The club was founded in 1899 as the Milan Cricket and Football Club by Alfred Edwards and Herbert Kilpin, British expatriates. In honour of its origins, the club has retained the English spelling of its city's name, instead of changing it to the Italian Milano; it should be noted that the current Italian pronunciation is actually MEE-lahn.

Inter Milan: The club was founded on March 9, 1908 following a schism from the Milan Cricket and Football Club, now known as AC Milan. A group of Italians and Swiss were unhappy about the domination of Italians in the AC Milan team, and broke away from them, leading to the creation of Internazionale. From the beginning, the club was open to foreign players and thus lived up to her founding name. The original nickname of the team in the Milano dialect was La Beneamata, the cherished.

[Richard]

I have heard a rumour about a major presser on April 12th at the Toronto Exhibition Grounds.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Inter Toronto is such a blatant rip-off (yes, it's as bad as Real Salt ), that I beg they choose any of the other options.

Northmen all the way ! Or perhaps it's too original ?

[Bill Spiers]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I have heard a rumour about a major presser on April 12th at the Toronto Exhibition Grounds.


I understand that a FIFA Inspection Team will be in Canada looking at all the venues for the U-20 World Championships. I'm guessing that the press conference is related to that and the stadium rather than the MLS team but I could be wrong.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto is no where near being "international soccer city of the planet" as it lags behind Montreal and Vancouver in Canada let alone 50 to 70 cities in Europe.
Those huge international soccer matches in Montreal and Vancouver have really been selling out Swangard and CCR lately, eh?

(Note to everyone else: this is not a shot a Montreal or Vancouver, but rather at G-Man's constant anti-Toronto stupidity)



USL attendance 2006

1 Montreal Impact 156,458/11,176
4 Vancouver Whitecaps 71,202/5,086
10 Toronto Lynx 34,552/2,468

Just the facts...and we'll see how well Montreal does with the MNT's exibition game in september. I'm betting on a sell-out.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I have heard a rumour about a major presser on April 12th at the Toronto Exhibition Grounds.

Rumour has it that the groundbreaking ceremony will take place that day, with the MLS team name and colours being announced at a later date.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto is no where near being "international soccer city of the planet" as it lags behind Montreal and Vancouver in Canada let alone 50 to 70 cities in Europe.
Those huge international soccer matches in Montreal and Vancouver have really been selling out Swangard and CCR lately, eh?

(Note to everyone else: this is not a shot a Montreal or Vancouver, but rather at G-Man's constant anti-Toronto stupidity)



USL attendance 2006

1 Montreal Impact 156,458/11,176
4 Vancouver Whitecaps 71,202/5,086
10 Toronto Lynx 34,552/2,468

Just the facts...and we'll see how well Montreal does with the MNT's exibition game in september. I'm betting on a sell-out.

So somehow USL attendance = international soccer success?

[Rocket Robin]

Toronto Northmen too original?
Not from what I remember. There was a Toronto Northmen World Football franchise started by one of the Bassett's back in the 1970s that never got to play here because of its threat to the CFL so Bassett took the franchise to Memphis Tennessee as the Southmen. The whole league didn't last long. Different rules like the offensive linemen wore different coloured pants than the offensive backs so fans could tell them apart.

So many football leagues since then that they blur together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Southmen

http://www.chriscreamer.com/team.php?t=1298
hey MLSE could use Carlton the Bear and keep the logo.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto is no where near being "international soccer city of the planet" as it lags behind Montreal and Vancouver in Canada let alone 50 to 70 cities in Europe.
Those huge international soccer matches in Montreal and Vancouver have really been selling out Swangard and CCR lately, eh?

(Note to everyone else: this is not a shot a Montreal or Vancouver, but rather at G-Man's constant anti-Toronto stupidity)



USL attendance 2006

1 Montreal Impact 156,458/11,176
4 Vancouver Whitecaps 71,202/5,086
10 Toronto Lynx 34,552/2,468

Just the facts...and we'll see how well Montreal does with the MNT's exibition game in september. I'm betting on a sell-out.

So somehow USL attendance = international soccer success?


the point being if you can't support the local pro team, how are you going to beat out places like Madrid or Oldham for the title of "international soccer city of the planet"

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

the point being if you can't support the local pro team, how are you going to beat out places like Madrid or Oldham for the title of "international soccer city of the planet"
Who called Toronto that, other than you?

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

the point being if you can't support the local pro team, how are you going to beat out places like Madrid or Oldham for the title of "international soccer city of the planet"
Who called Toronto that, other than you?


ummm speedmonk42.

anyway...so so defensive.

Inter-Toronto Sucks
TorontoSpor Rules

Brings up the point..why is that women who wear Tie Domi shirts usually look like Tie Domi...and generally win more fights?

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

ummm speedmonk42.

anyway...so so defensive.
Having read speedmonk42's post, it had nothing to do with USL team attendances.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

ummm speedmonk42.

anyway...so so defensive.
Having read speedmonk42's post, it had nothing to do with USL team attendances.


you have a hard time followng threads don't you.

[speedmonk42]

the point being if you can't support the local pro team, how are you going to beat out places like Madrid or Oldham for the title of "international soccer city of the planet"
---------------------------

It is more complex than that. We don't really have the infrastrcuture to answer these questions yet. In TO we soon will.

It is more complex in that I am talking about International games, like T&T playing Greece or something like that. My point is that alot of the smaller teams can still get some attendance because of the strong ethnic groups that exist in the city and surrounding cities. It doesn't mean they will support the Lynx, but they might come out to a unique game, and subsequently start supporting a/the local pro team.

It is I think the biggest case for a domestic B team to play some kind of regular event.

Now we have the infrastructure coming, now many of the things we have always been asking for can actually start to happen.

[Metro]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto is no where near being "international soccer city of the planet" as it lags behind Montreal and Vancouver in Canada let alone 50 to 70 cities in Europe.
Those huge international soccer matches in Montreal and Vancouver have really been selling out Swangard and CCR lately, eh?

(Note to everyone else: this is not a shot a Montreal or Vancouver, but rather at G-Man's constant anti-Toronto stupidity)



USL attendance 2006

1 Montreal Impact 156,458/11,176
4 Vancouver Whitecaps 71,202/5,086
10 Toronto Lynx 34,552/2,468

Just the facts...and we'll see how well Montreal does with the MNT's exibition game in september. I'm betting on a sell-out.

So somehow USL attendance = international soccer success?


the point being if you can't support the local pro team, how are you going to beat out places like Madrid or Oldham for the title of "international soccer city of the planet"




That's like saying Toronto can't support an NBA team because they didn't support the CBA's Tornados back in the 80's

[DoyleG]

Their attendance is heading in that direction.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Their attendance is heading in that direction.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance


Their attendance is is 17th in a 30 team league despite having one of the worst teams in the league. If anything yours stats prove that Toronto can support professional teams.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly


quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Their attendance is heading in that direction.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance


Their attendance is is 17th in a 30 team league despite having one of the worst teams in the league. If anything yours stats prove that Toronto can support professional teams.


Their not when you only have an 85% capacity of their arena. A city like Toronto should have attendance to that of the big boys if they want to claim they support the NBA.

No to mention being the worst road draw in the NBA.

[Grizzly]

85% capacity is fairly decent in any professional sport especially with a poor team like the Raptors are. If the MLS club gets 85% capacity attendance they will be pretty happy. They are the worst road draw because they are a crappy team without a lot of strong rivalries with other teams and no stars to attract fans. The fact that their road attendance has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand certainly doesn't stop you from mentioning it though.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

85% capacity is fairly decent in any professional sport especially with a poor team like the Raptors are. If the MLS club gets 85% capacity attendance they will be pretty happy. They are the worst road draw because they are a crappy team without a lot of strong rivalries with other teams and no stars to attract fans. The fact that their road attendance has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand certainly doesn't stop you from mentioning it though.


Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.

85% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the NBA.

Stop denying it.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

85% capacity is fairly decent in any professional sport especially with a poor team like the Raptors are. If the MLS club gets 85% capacity attendance they will be pretty happy. They are the worst road draw because they are a crappy team without a lot of strong rivalries with other teams and no stars to attract fans. The fact that their road attendance has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand certainly doesn't stop you from mentioning it though.


Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.

85% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the NBA.

Stop denying it.

They're still ahead of 13 other NBA teams, all (except Memphis) with longer stand NBA traditions and most with much better teams.

If 85% is "piss poor", then MLB must be the worst run league in the world: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?sort=home_pct&year=2005&seasonType=2

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG
Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.


I can read between the lines quite well. What I have difficulty accomplishing is drawing illogical conclusions from data that supports the position of my opponents. Luckily for this board you are here to specialize in this form of reasoning.

[DoyleG]

Happy to accept your surrender.

[fetajr]

in spanish Real=Royal. Therefore Royal Madrid, in a country which still had/has its fair share of royalty, makes a hell of a lot of sense, But where the hell is the Royalty in Salt Lake???.. as stated before, the worse rip off i've ever seen. Inter-Toronto ranks second, only because Toronto actually is a cultural jungle.

At first i hated the idea of the format "[City Name] [Mascot Name]" template north american teams usually name themselves, but now after this retarded 'Inter-Toronto' rip off name, i'd rather be called the "Toronto Beavers" or something equally as dumb, but not a rip off.

I can just picture the IDIOTS at MLSE in the board room trying to figure this name out, a bunch of IDIOTS with no knowledge of soccer and no shame of lack of originality.

DEFINETLY

TORONTO FC is the best one by far., I'd even like to bring back TORONTO BLIZZARD, that was a cool name, but since theres global warming we dont have blizzards anymore.

how about these original names for the team that reflect the nature of T.O

-CLUB GTA / GTA CLUB

-TORONTO SMOG
-TORONTO TRAFFIC
-TORONTO JANE'N'FINCHERS

[fetajr]

in spanish Real=Royal. Therefore Royal Madrid, in a country which still had/has its fair share of royalty, makes a hell of a lot of sense, But where the hell is the Royalty in Salt Lake???.. as stated before, the worse rip off i've ever seen. Inter-Toronto ranks second, only because Toronto actually is a cultural jungle.

At first i hated the idea of the format "[City Name] [Mascot Name]" template north american teams usually name themselves, but now after this retarded 'Inter-Toronto' rip off name, i'd rather be called the "Toronto Beavers" or something equally as dumb, but not a rip off.

I can just picture the IDIOTS at MLSE in the board room trying to figure this name out, a bunch of IDIOTS with no knowledge of soccer and no shame of lack of originality.

DEFINETLY

TORONTO FC is the best one by far., I'd even like to bring back TORONTO BLIZZARD, that was a cool name, but since theres global warming we dont have blizzards anymore.

how about these original names for the team that reflect the nature of T.O

-CLUB GTA / GTA CLUB

-TORONTO SMOG
-TORONTO TRAFFIC
-TORONTO JANE'N'FINCHERS

[Massive Attack]

I still think Toronto Exhibitionists is the best name.

Think of all the cross promotions we can have with the Brass Rail and Wiskey-A-Go-Go's.

[Massive Attack]

I still think Toronto Exhibitionists is the best name.

Think of all the cross promotions we can have with the Brass Rail and Wiskey-A-Go-Go's.

[Rocket Robin]

And I still think Toronto Rush is the best name but won't give you a punch line.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Rocket Robin

And I still think Toronto Rush is the best name but won't give you a punch line.


We own that name already.

[Rocket Robin]

different sport--Lacrosse.

Even the Lynx name is used by the WNBA franchise in Minnesota where they drafted a Canadian for their ladies basketball team.

And Toronto has this band...

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I still think Toronto Exhibitionists is the best name.

Think of all the cross promotions we can have with the Brass Rail and Wiskey-A-Go-Go's.


And BNL doing the national anthem before the games.

[Jeffery S.]

Toronto Gothic.

Unbeatable.

[Richard]

York Redcoats

[Duane Rollins]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.

85% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the NBA.

Stop denying it.



Edmonton Eskimos average attendance in 2005 = 41,933
Commonwealth Stadium capacity = 60,081

Percentage of seats filled = 69.7%

Source: http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CFL-Attendance.htm

And I always thought Edmonton was a great CFL town. I guess because it doesn’t draw an arbitrary number of fans, it must not be.

Interesting.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy


quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.

85% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the NBA.

Stop denying it.



Edmonton Eskimos average attendance in 2005 = 41,933
Commonwealth Stadium capacity = 60,081

Percentage of seats filled = 69.7%

Source: http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CFL-Attendance.htm

And I always thought Edmonton was a great CFL town. I guess because it doesn’t draw an arbitrary number of fans, it must not be.

Interesting.


Glad to see that you can read between the lines.

69.7% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the CFL.

I'm sure you'll be happy to accept his surrender.

Stop denying it.









:D

[Breakwood]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy


quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.

85% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the NBA.

Stop denying it.



Edmonton Eskimos average attendance in 2005 = 41,933
Commonwealth Stadium capacity = 60,081

Percentage of seats filled = 69.7%

Source: http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CFL-Attendance.htm

And I always thought Edmonton was a great CFL town. I guess because it doesn’t draw an arbitrary number of fans, it must not be.

Interesting.


Glad to see that you can read between the lines.

69.7% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the CFL.

I'm sure you'll be happy to accept his surrender.

Stop denying it.









:D


Touché

I still find it funny that someone would acctually thing that since Toronto is the worst road draw in the league, they would think that support for the team is bad. What about the last 5+ years when the Raptors where consistantly in the top 10 attended teams in the NBA eventhough they have only ever made 2 play-offs.

[morrison]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by DoyleG


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

85% capacity is fairly decent in any professional sport especially with a poor team like the Raptors are. If the MLS club gets 85% capacity attendance they will be pretty happy. They are the worst road draw because they are a crappy team without a lot of strong rivalries with other teams and no stars to attract fans. The fact that their road attendance has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand certainly doesn't stop you from mentioning it though.


Sad to see you cn't read between the lines.

85% capacity is piss poor for a city claiming to support the NBA.

Stop denying it.

They're still ahead of 13 other NBA teams, all (except Memphis) with longer stand NBA traditions and most with much better teams.

If 85% is "piss poor", then MLB must be the worst run league in the world: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance?sort=home_pct&year=2005&seasonType=2




Serie A is another good example.

[CroMan]

I have to say that I like the name of the team " Inter-Toronto FC". No I am not a fan of Inter-Milan. I am a fan of our city. I am a football fan.

I like the name because if there is any city in the world that should have the name " International" as the name of its football club then that certainly must be Toronto. Certainly we are more "Inter" then Milan.

I can only hope that football/soccer fans from all backgrounds will support a team in Toronto with the name Inter - after all it really does capture the essense of our community.

So Bravo MLS. I finally agree with one of your moves.

[twismca]

quote:Originally posted by CroMan

I like the name because if there is any city in the world that should have the name " International" as the name of its football club then that certainly must be Toronto. Certainly we are more "Inter" then Milan.


I agree with CroMan. Toronto will be the first Canadian team in MLS making the league "Inter"national. It was stated earlier in this post that Inter Milan was created so that international players could play for a Milan club. Well Canadians are made up entirely of international immigrants unless you're native. "Toronto" is native for "meeting place" and MLSE is selling the game to "Inter"national fans. MLS understand that the Europpean game is superior and that's why they're using the name associations even though some don't make sense (Real Salt Lake). Well Inter Toronto makes SENSE. DC is a STATE not a CITY so DC United allows many cities to back one club. Don't think of these names as "rip-offs", just enjoy the beautiful game.

[renatinho]

It's not that uncommon to name a team Inter. There are four already: Internazionale di Milano, Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava.

Black and blue make for great jersey colours if they want to go that route.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by twismca


quote:Originally posted by CroMan

I like the name because if there is any city in the world that should have the name " International" as the name of its football club then that certainly must be Toronto. Certainly we are more "Inter" then Milan.


I agree with CroMan. Toronto will be the first Canadian team in MLS making the league "Inter"national. It was stated earlier in this post that Inter Milan was created so that international players could play for a Milan club. Well Canadians are made up entirely of international immigrants unless you're native. "Toronto" is native for "meeting place" and MLSE is selling the game to "Inter"national fans. MLS understand that the Europpean game is superior and that's why they're using the name associations even though some don't make sense (Real Salt Lake). Well Inter Toronto makes SENSE. DC is a STATE not a CITY so DC United allows many cities to back one club. Don't think of these names as "rip-offs", just enjoy the beautiful game.


Well said (except the part of DC being a state...it is not)....I have been a supporter/fan of this name for some time and, for the reasons you state, am still a supporter....just wish they would drop the "FC" part...still not sure what that means!

[Manuel]

FC = Football Club

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Manuel

FC = Football Club




Yes I know...but since the league is Major League [u]Soccer</u> it is the FC that smacks of "phonyism" not the Inter part. I am ok with the name but what is wrong with a simple Inter Toronto....or, if they must, Inter Toronto SC?

[beachesl]

I´m closing the other thread about the Inter name and pasting it here...mod.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Topic
sergiop3


Windsor
Canada
2 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 13:52:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow i can't believe this....
Im 20 years old and 100 percent italian and a fanatic when its comes to world soccer.......but some of the things you guys are writing disgust me! No matter what the name is i would support them like i support my favorite team...LAZIo...in Italy! Just because it starts with inter shouldnt matter at all...For all you mangiacakes that dont like the name inter or any other name....it is the team of your city and its the kind of opportunity that toronto is finally getting from the MLS and MLSE is amazing. Your support should be there no matter what and dont start crying before the team has even been created...wow u guys amke me sick! You think the Magpies in england like there name ?! or bolton wanderers for all you mangiacakes who love EPL?!?!
This is what Canada needed cause the people running the CSA dont know what the hell there doing when it comes to player development and will never admit they dont know anything about the game and the people playing it in this country....

The funniest part is that I am from windsor ontario! Not even from Toronto and i will be behind Toronto 1000 percent. I never watched the MLS in my life...but we have a team to call our own now and it doesnt matter how dumb it sounds or how much we dislike it! This is our opportunity to show the world that Canada has true international flavor and talent in soccer...Forza Inter Toronto...

Rudi


Mississauga
Canada
1439 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 14:07:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sergiop3

For all you mangiacakes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is a great way to endear yourself to the greater populace.


Richard


Vancouver
Canada
1293 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 14:10:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"we have a team to call our own"
Your fervour is admirable but did the Toronto Lynx and the USL D1 never show on your soccer radar?
There is no harm in expressing an opinion about and discussing possible names for a club but I think you'll find most people on this board are enthusiastic supporters of MLS Toronto, whatever the name is. The detractors are but a noisy few.


Elias


Steeltown
Canada
588 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 18:25:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you say gimmick in Italian?

By the way, Columbus is closer to Windsor than Toronto is. So the Crew is your home team.


Daniel


Around
2993 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 18:26:37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THUNDER DAN 4 CANADA!!!


sergiop3


Windsor
Canada
2 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 20:13:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Elias

How do you say gimmick in Italian?

By the way, Columbus is closer to Windsor than Toronto is. So the Crew is your home team.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



by the way...i live in canada jackass....u guys up there forget that the country comes down past london sometimes...

[beachesl]

I´m closing the other thread about the Inter name and pasting it here...mod.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Topic
sergiop3


Windsor
Canada
2 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 13:52:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow i can't believe this....
Im 20 years old and 100 percent italian and a fanatic when its comes to world soccer.......but some of the things you guys are writing disgust me! No matter what the name is i would support them like i support my favorite team...LAZIo...in Italy! Just because it starts with inter shouldnt matter at all...For all you mangiacakes that dont like the name inter or any other name....it is the team of your city and its the kind of opportunity that toronto is finally getting from the MLS and MLSE is amazing. Your support should be there no matter what and dont start crying before the team has even been created...wow u guys amke me sick! You think the Magpies in england like there name ?! or bolton wanderers for all you mangiacakes who love EPL?!?!
This is what Canada needed cause the people running the CSA dont know what the hell there doing when it comes to player development and will never admit they dont know anything about the game and the people playing it in this country....

The funniest part is that I am from windsor ontario! Not even from Toronto and i will be behind Toronto 1000 percent. I never watched the MLS in my life...but we have a team to call our own now and it doesnt matter how dumb it sounds or how much we dislike it! This is our opportunity to show the world that Canada has true international flavor and talent in soccer...Forza Inter Toronto...

Rudi


Mississauga
Canada
1439 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 14:07:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sergiop3

For all you mangiacakes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is a great way to endear yourself to the greater populace.


Richard


Vancouver
Canada
1293 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 14:10:58
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"we have a team to call our own"
Your fervour is admirable but did the Toronto Lynx and the USL D1 never show on your soccer radar?
There is no harm in expressing an opinion about and discussing possible names for a club but I think you'll find most people on this board are enthusiastic supporters of MLS Toronto, whatever the name is. The detractors are but a noisy few.


Elias


Steeltown
Canada
588 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 18:25:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you say gimmick in Italian?

By the way, Columbus is closer to Windsor than Toronto is. So the Crew is your home team.


Daniel


Around
2993 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 18:26:37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THUNDER DAN 4 CANADA!!!


sergiop3


Windsor
Canada
2 Posts
Posted - 04/11/2006 : 20:13:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Elias

How do you say gimmick in Italian?

By the way, Columbus is closer to Windsor than Toronto is. So the Crew is your home team.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



by the way...i live in canada jackass....u guys up there forget that the country comes down past london sometimes...

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by sergiop3

by the way...i live in canada jackass....u guys up there forget that the country comes down past london sometimes...

Easy there keyboard cowboy.

London?? What London?? The 401, hence Canada, ends at Hamilton.


As for your first post,
http://www.festo.com/INetDomino/files/enter_key.jpg
It exists for a reason.


So does this, but I'm nice.
http://www.seykota.com/tribe/FAQ/2005_Feb/Feb_1/delete_key.jpg

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by sergiop3

by the way...i live in canada jackass....u guys up there forget that the country comes down past london sometimes...

Easy there keyboard cowboy.

London?? What London?? The 401, hence Canada, ends at Hamilton.


As for your first post,
http://www.festo.com/INetDomino/files/enter_key.jpg
It exists for a reason.


So does this, but I'm nice.
http://www.seykota.com/tribe/FAQ/2005_Feb/Feb_1/delete_key.jpg

[Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by renatinho

It's not that uncommon to name a team Inter. There are four already: Internazionale di Milano, Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava.

Black and blue make for great jersey colours if they want to go that route.


Just on the basis of this post, if someone at MLSE can intelligently come out and say the same thing, that the name does not only reference a single team in Milan but an idea of a club repeated elsewhere, then I think I could accept the name. Just saw, funnily enough, a team in the Andorra league with Inter in it as well. If the argument is generic and not specific, if they make the effort to convince the AC Milan fans that they are NOT going against their colours, then I will give them credit.

But somehow I think they are not clued in enough for these subtleties, and will just let the qualms out there ride. And then wonder why the enthusiasm from those with Italian background in TO is less than warm.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


quote:Originally posted by renatinho

It's not that uncommon to name a team Inter. There are four already: Internazionale di Milano, Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava.

Black and blue make for great jersey colours if they want to go that route.


Just on the basis of this post, if someone at MLSE can intelligently come out and say the same thing, that the name does not only reference a single team in Milan but an idea of a club repeated elsewhere, then I think I could accept the name. Just saw, funnily enough, a team in the Andorra league with Inter in it as well. If the argument is generic and not specific, if they make the effort to convince the AC Milan fans that they are NOT going against their colours, then I will give them credit.

But somehow I think they are not clued in enough for these subtleties, and will just let the qualms out there ride. And then wonder why the enthusiasm from those with Italian background in TO is less than warm.


Maybe some bright light at MLSE already has it figured out. The club's home kit will be a replica AC Milan's kit and it's away kit will be that of Juve. It's 3rd kit will Roma's. Scarf will be sold in all 3 club colours with the only the words "Toronto" on them.

What a weave you make when you pander to an ethnic group.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


quote:Originally posted by renatinho

It's not that uncommon to name a team Inter. There are four already: Internazionale di Milano, Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava.

Black and blue make for great jersey colours if they want to go that route.


Just on the basis of this post, if someone at MLSE can intelligently come out and say the same thing, that the name does not only reference a single team in Milan but an idea of a club repeated elsewhere, then I think I could accept the name. Just saw, funnily enough, a team in the Andorra league with Inter in it as well. If the argument is generic and not specific, if they make the effort to convince the AC Milan fans that they are NOT going against their colours, then I will give them credit.

But somehow I think they are not clued in enough for these subtleties, and will just let the qualms out there ride. And then wonder why the enthusiasm from those with Italian background in TO is less than warm.


Would anyone believe them if they did say that? That was a point I made a long time ago in a post about expected level of success of the team here.....yes, there is a huge following for the sport here but it is, I am afraid, too "tribal".

Just in naming the team Inter I have already seen posts on boards saying "it is too Italian" from Brits and other groups and posts from non-Inter Italians saying "why Inter"....already the devoted soccer fans of Toronto are building their own set of excuses why they can't support this team.

[Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


quote:Originally posted by renatinho

It's not that uncommon to name a team Inter. There are four already: Internazionale di Milano, Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava.

Black and blue make for great jersey colours if they want to go that route.


Just on the basis of this post, if someone at MLSE can intelligently come out and say the same thing, that the name does not only reference a single team in Milan but an idea of a club repeated elsewhere, then I think I could accept the name. Just saw, funnily enough, a team in the Andorra league with Inter in it as well. If the argument is generic and not specific, if they make the effort to convince the AC Milan fans that they are NOT going against their colours, then I will give them credit.

But somehow I think they are not clued in enough for these subtleties, and will just let the qualms out there ride. And then wonder why the enthusiasm from those with Italian background in TO is less than warm.


Would anyone believe them if they did say that? That was a point I made a long time ago in a post about expected level of success of the team here.....yes, there is a huge following for the sport here but it is, I am afraid, too "tribal".

Just in naming the team Inter I have already seen posts on boards saying "it is too Italian" from Brits and other groups and posts from non-Inter Italians saying "why Inter"....already the devoted soccer fans of Toronto are building their own set of excuses why they can't support this team.




If I lived in Salt Lake I would have serious problems supporting a team trying to reference Real Madrid. Sorry, but it is true. Maybe I'd get over it, maybe I'd have to publically deride local management to get the irritation off and then go to games, wearing my old Addidas Barça shirt from 1994 (only one I own). But I doubt that in Utah there are any more than 500 Barça supporters, most of them being Mormons who had a good missionary spell here and caught the fever, or Catalans who were convinced by the Elders and Sister on some Mormon-related courses. So it is a bunch you can sacrifice in Utah, it is small and insignificant.

This is not the case in Toronto, where a lot of Italian teams have strong followings. I saw Barça's European Cup win over La Samp in Toronto, in an Italian neighbourhood on Telelatino, and the streets were full of Samp shirts. Which suggests that there might be a dozen or more well-supported Italian teams in Toronto, most of whom would not be at all sympathetic to Internazionale. Which is the worst spending team in the world over the past 15 years, or maybe the most-underperforming for budget team in the world over the period.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.


quote:Originally posted by renatinho

It's not that uncommon to name a team Inter. There are four already: Internazionale di Milano, Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava.

Black and blue make for great jersey colours if they want to go that route.


Just on the basis of this post, if someone at MLSE can intelligently come out and say the same thing, that the name does not only reference a single team in Milan but an idea of a club repeated elsewhere, then I think I could accept the name. Just saw, funnily enough, a team in the Andorra league with Inter in it as well. If the argument is generic and not specific, if they make the effort to convince the AC Milan fans that they are NOT going against their colours, then I will give them credit.

But somehow I think they are not clued in enough for these subtleties, and will just let the qualms out there ride. And then wonder why the enthusiasm from those with Italian background in TO is less than warm.


Would anyone believe them if they did say that? That was a point I made a long time ago in a post about expected level of success of the team here.....yes, there is a huge following for the sport here but it is, I am afraid, too "tribal".

Just in naming the team Inter I have already seen posts on boards saying "it is too Italian" from Brits and other groups and posts from non-Inter Italians saying "why Inter"....already the devoted soccer fans of Toronto are building their own set of excuses why they can't support this team.




If I lived in Salt Lake I would have serious problems supporting a team trying to reference Real Madrid. Sorry, but it is true. Maybe I'd get over it, maybe I'd have to publically deride local management to get the irritation off and then go to games, wearing my old Addidas Barça shirt from 1994 (only one I own). But I doubt that in Utah there are any more than 500 Barça supporters, most of them being Mormons who had a good missionary spell here and caught the fever, or Catalans who were convinced by the Elders and Sister on some Mormon-related courses. So it is a bunch you can sacrifice in Utah, it is small and insignificant.

This is not the case in Toronto, where a lot of Italian teams have strong followings. I saw Barça's European Cup win over La Samp in Toronto, in an Italian neighbourhood on Telelatino, and the streets were full of Samp shirts. Which suggests that there might be a dozen or more well-supported Italian teams in Toronto, most of whom would not be at all sympathetic to Internazionale. Which is the worst spending team in the world over the past 15 years, or maybe the most-underperforming for budget team in the world over the period.


All interesting...all true...but, other than a common name, what will Inter Toronto FC have to do with Inter Milan? Why does their spending or anyone's idea on football in Italy matter to their ability to support a team of, primarily, Canadians playing a bunch of other teams made up of, primarily, Americans?

[DJT]

From the Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1144878610432&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home):

'Inter' name poses Real problem for club
T.O.'s MLS entry needs more inclusive moniker

Apr. 13, 2006. 01:00 AM
CATHAL KELLY

Major League Soccer is working very hard to get its new brand of pandering just right. Largely unable to interest mainstream America, the league has turned its sights on the ethnic fans most attached to the beautiful game.

So when Toronto's MLS franchise debuts in spring 2007, it seems it's going to do so brimming with Italian brio. It's been widely reported that the team will be called Inter Toronto FC, a name inspired by Serie A club Inter Milan. Team owner Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment has neither confirmed nor denied the widespread rumour.

At first blush, this is a clear sop to the 200,000 or so members of Toronto's Italian community. But for every Inter fan in this city, there's an Italian Juventus, AC Milan or Roma supporter who won't like the idea one bit. It's more likely that MLSE's braintrust thought the name suited our multicultural make-up since Inter Milan was born as an immigrant experiment.

In the early 20th century, the Milan Cricket and Football Club didn't accept non-Italians as members. So in 1908 a group of unhappy Swiss players and some Italian rebels formed their own side. They named it Internazionale to celebrate its multinational character. Thus the nickname "Inter." The MCFC would go on to become their bitter modern rivals, AC Milan.

When MLS kicked off in 1996, it did so with team names like the Crew, the Mutiny and the Rapids — American names. After the 2004 season, the thinking shifted to accommodate the league's fastest growing fan base.

The Dallas Burn was renamed FC Dallas ("F" for futbol rather than football), acknowledging that the club's core support came from the Latino community. An expansion franchise aimed at Los Angeles's Spanish speakers was named Deportivo Chivas. Another in Utah, where Latinos make up more than one-tenth of the population, was dubbed Real Salt Lake. Most white Utahns, even the soccer fans, mistakenly pronounced it "Reel" instead of "Ray-al."

When the San Jose Earthquakes moved to Houston for the 2006 season, they tried a variation on the league's new theme. Officials christened the club Houston 1836 to mark the year of the city's birth. It's common for German sides to note the year of a club's creation in their names (e.g. Munich 1860, Bayer 04 Leverkusen). This time, the moniker blew up in their faces.

As in Dallas, L.A. and Salt Lake City, a large part of MLS's Houston strategy was to attract Latinos.

So when the team's target audience pointed out that 1836 also marked the year white Texans bloodily seceded from Mexico, it was cause for concern. When the issue spilled into the larger political debate of Texas, a state where one in three citizens claims Mexican ancestry, it became a crisis. Before it had played a game, the club was renamed Houston Dynamo.

That's not to suggest any sort of ethnic revolt is going to happen in Toronto. But naming the team Inter annoys non-Italian fans, Italian fans who don't like Inter and the vast sports-going public who has no idea what the name means. Even Inter Milan's fans could conceivably object to an upstart side equating itself with the Italian giant.

Appealing directly to Mexican-Americans in cities where Anglo locals politely ignore your product is one thing, but picking ethnic favourites in Toronto is all downside. Someone's bound to feel left out.

Also, aping the names of bigger clubs only calls attention to what MLS isn't — a European league.

In the end, the team name has to make a compromise between pleasing the relatively few knowledgeable local fans while not alienating the legion of others who might warm up to Toronto soccer, but need to be coaxed along gently.

And here's the thing about compromises — they usually bother someone.

Houston's compromise — Dynamo — echoes Dynamo Moscow. That club was named and controlled for many years by the Soviet secret police. Fortunately for MLS, Houston's eastern European émigré community doesn't have the clout to mess with Texas.

[G-Man]

I'm upset. One more media type bashing the greatest game on earth. I'm writing to this so called journalist's editor to have her/him fired. MLSE should only be praised. Have dare she! Kevin Pipe should BAN her/him from ever reporting on the sport ever again. At the very least she should be scolded by all scarf wearing unionites.

[twismca]

It seems as though this name will never work unless MLSE makes it blatantly clear that:

1: This is NOT a link to Inter Milan. There are others with the Inter name already: Internacional de Porto Alegre, Inter Turku and ASK Inter Bratislava. Just like "United" is not a Manchester reference (Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield)

2. The name celebrates the multicultural side of the city - In the early 20th century, the Milan Cricket and Football Club didn't accept non-Italians as members. So in 1908 a group of unhappy Swiss players and some Italian rebels formed their own side. They named it Internazionale to celebrate its multinational character. Thus the nickname "Inter."

However, trying to use that history lesson without alienating some Italian-Canadians will be tricky.

My advice to Richard Peddie: Do yourself a favour and get someone with some kind of soccer knowledge to make the announcement and don't get anywhere near a microphone whenever you guys announce this...

[thepatriot]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

I'm upset. One more media type bashing the greatest game on earth. I'm writing to this so called journalist's editor to have her/him fired. MLSE should only be praised. Have dare she! Kevin Pipe should BAN her/him from ever reporting on the sport ever again. At the very least she should be scolded by all scarf wearing unionites.




God forbid Journalists stop doing their job....a thought provoking and informed article. If we need another Yes-MAN we know where to find you G-MAN.

[Sigma]

&lt;mod&gt;Just a general comment. Please refrain from taking little shots at each other.&lt;/mod&gt;

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by thepatriot


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

I'm upset. One more media type bashing the greatest game on earth. I'm writing to this so called journalist's editor to have her/him fired. MLSE should only be praised. Have dare she! Kevin Pipe should BAN her/him from ever reporting on the sport ever again. At the very least she should be scolded by all scarf wearing unionites.





God forbid Journalists stop doing their job....a thought provoking and informed article. If we need another Yes-MAN we know where to find you G-MAN.




I will assume you are fairly new here (36 posts) and did not recognize the tongue-in-cheek quality of G-Man's post....he has been called many things by many people but "Yes man" would be a first!!

[Joe Keeper]

Kelly raises an interesting debate, but MLSE arnt officially going after the Inter moniker soley to mimic Inter Milan im sure. As said, there are meany Inters or Internationals around the world.

[matthew]

You can argue there are many Uniteds (I certainly think Newcastle as fast as I think Manchester, nevermind Leeds and dozens in the lower leagues in England), there are many Reals (Sociodad, Betis and Zaragotha spring to mind beyond Madrid without really thinking about it). There may be many Inters, but I only think of one. Actually I tried to think of any others I could come up with. All I could think of was Inter Regina, a U12 team that didn't lose for more than a season-and-a-half that my friend's kid brother player for. Inter Regina wasn't named after Porto Alegre, Turku or Bratislava either.

Granted Internacional is fairly well known, but they aren't an Inter as it were and while they are top flight mainstays aren't one of the most famous teams in Brazil. And there are surely a few of Internacionals in South America, but not Inters.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Slovan Bratislava the more famous team? I see that Inter Bratislava has two league titles, so maybe they're more famous than I give them credit for. And FC Inter Turku has 'Abo 1990' on their badge, so I'm not sure they're a good club to point at for history of Inters. If anything it looks like they just beat Toronto to the idea 15 years early. Though perhaps there is a rich history of lifting the name.

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.

Or maybe they'll unveil something different, we shall see. But I don't see any way of spinning this into a big positive that will change the tone of reaction they have received so far.

cheers,
matthew

[matthew]

You can argue there are many Uniteds (I certainly think Newcastle as fast as I think Manchester, nevermind Leeds and dozens in the lower leagues in England), there are many Reals (Sociodad, Betis and Zaragotha spring to mind beyond Madrid without really thinking about it). There may be many Inters, but I only think of one. Actually I tried to think of any others I could come up with. All I could think of was Inter Regina, a U12 team that didn't lose for more than a season-and-a-half that my friend's kid brother player for. Inter Regina wasn't named after Porto Alegre, Turku or Bratislava either.

Granted Internacional is fairly well known, but they aren't an Inter as it were and while they are top flight mainstays aren't one of the most famous teams in Brazil. And there are surely a few of Internacionals in South America, but not Inters.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Slovan Bratislava the more famous team? I see that Inter Bratislava has two league titles, so maybe they're more famous than I give them credit for. And FC Inter Turku has 'Abo 1990' on their badge, so I'm not sure they're a good club to point at for history of Inters. If anything it looks like they just beat Toronto to the idea 15 years early. Though perhaps there is a rich history of lifting the name.

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.

Or maybe they'll unveil something different, we shall see. But I don't see any way of spinning this into a big positive that will change the tone of reaction they have received so far.

cheers,
matthew

[Sigma]

quote:Originally posted by matthew



Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Slovan Bratislava the more famous team? I see that Inter Bratislava has two league titles, so maybe they're more famous than I give them credit for.

Yes, Slovan Bratislava have won 8 Slovak titles over the years when Slovakia had its own championship. They have also won 8 Czechoslovakian titles from 1945-1993. Slovan also won the 1967 Fairs Cup (Cup Winners Cup).

Currently the club are in the Slovak 2nd division.

[Sigma]

quote:Originally posted by matthew



Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't Slovan Bratislava the more famous team? I see that Inter Bratislava has two league titles, so maybe they're more famous than I give them credit for.

Yes, Slovan Bratislava have won 8 Slovak titles over the years when Slovakia had its own championship. They have also won 8 Czechoslovakian titles from 1945-1993. Slovan also won the 1967 Fairs Cup (Cup Winners Cup).

Currently the club are in the Slovak 2nd division.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by DJT


quote:Originally posted by matthew

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.


As I have said before, I like the name....but for those that don't....can you tell me why it matters so much?

I am sure if they had opted for a north american style name there would have been about a 6 page discussion over how dumb those names are and how they (MLSE) clearly don't understand the traditions of the game.

If they had chosen "United" it would have raised the ire of the anti-ManU crowd....and so on and so on. What this discussion has done for me, unfortunately, is to remind of how fickle, tribal and hard to please the soccer populace of the GTA is....I wish we could just move on from the name.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by DJT


quote:Originally posted by matthew

If MLSE tries to say this is named after 'many Inters around the world' and lists off teams in Slovakia and Finland I can't see it flying. In fact I would think it would do more damage than good as people see right through that one.

What they should say - and what I'm sure they will say - is that Inter is short for international, it reflects this team's position as the proud first international team in the American MLS while also paying homage to the great multicultural, cosmopolitan and international flavour of Toronto and its diverse supporters.

And I'm sure there's some truth to that reasoning, but it begs the question why not the full word in the name.Yup, I agree with all this. I've been too lazy to type it out, so thanks for doing so.


As I have said before, I like the name....but for those that don't....can you tell me why it matters so much?

I am sure if they had opted for a north american style name there would have been about a 6 page discussion over how dumb those names are and how they (MLSE) clearly don't understand the traditions of the game.

If they had chosen "United" it would have raised the ire of the anti-ManU crowd....and so on and so on. What this discussion has done for me, unfortunately, is to remind of how fickle, tribal and hard to please the soccer populace of the GTA is....I wish we could just move on from the name.

[Ivan]

I am on record for liking the name as well, and again, agree with that said by Matthew and TOareaFan.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Ivan

I am on record for liking the name as well, and again, agree with that said by Matthew and TOareaFan.


Strange that....Matthew seems to think the name is a problem/issue (least, that is what I read in his post) and I think it is/should be a none issue.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Ivan

I am on record for liking the name as well, and again, agree with that said by Matthew and TOareaFan.


Strange that....Matthew seems to think the name is a problem/issue (least, that is what I read in his post) and I think it is/should be a none issue.
The name is a problem because it is a rip-off and will make it harder for fans to make the team their own. It would be easier to establish a distinct identity if the name was more unique.

It should also be noted that people with a far greater love and knowledge of the sport have tried to bring professional soccer to Toronto and failed. Although things have changed, so failure is not certain, neither is success. MLSE are certainly capable of screwing this up even worse than they have the Leafs and Raptors - teams in sports they actually have knowledge of. So failure is possible.

It should therefore not be a surprise that fans get edgy when it looks like MLSE is screwing up before the first game has even been played. The name/logo/colour package, as well as the choice of management team/coach and selection of players, are crucial to a successful launch. You only get one chance at a first impression, and this team needs a good launch to make it. I think the POSSIBLE choice of Inter Toronto FC causes anger and frustration because it could drive away potential fans and hurt merchandise sales - both vital to success. It also provides ammunition to those who think that MLSE does not understand soccer and cannot run a successful team.

So yes it does matter. A name should stand the test of time and confer a unique identity. Fans have a right to be concerned because if MLSE screws this up, then what makes you think that they won't screw-up the rest of it?

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Ivan

I am on record for liking the name as well, and again, agree with that said by Matthew and TOareaFan.


Strange that....Matthew seems to think the name is a problem/issue (least, that is what I read in his post) and I think it is/should be a none issue.



Yeah, re-reading Matthew's post, I guess you are right. It was the last three paragraphs that I concentrated on.

I do not think the name is a rip-off, and do believe they intend it to be short for International, the same that the Inter in Milan is short for Internazionale.

And after all, its just a freakin name. If the team was called the Toronto Tigers, I would live with it. We have a real pro soccer franchise for God's sake!

[zacRWE]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

I'm upset. One more media type bashing the greatest game on earth. I'm writing to this so called journalist's editor to have her/him fired. MLSE should only be praised. Have dare she! Kevin Pipe should BAN her/him from ever reporting on the sport ever again. At the very least she should be scolded by all scarf wearing unionites.



Thats a male reporter

[matthew]

I am definitely against the name.

I wouldn't like International Toronto FC, but I would accept it more readily than Inter Toronto FC. I know it's a subtle difference, but despite the existence of other Inters mentioned above, to me there really is only one Inter.

I get what I think they're going to argue for, but at the end of the day it sounds like an Inter Milan knockoff, it feels like an Inter Milan knockoff and I think in the mind of the general soccer supporting public in the GTA it is going to play like an Inter Milan knockoff.

I liked a few of the things Cathal Kelly said: in a market in the US where most don't care, you can target the latino crowd specifically. In Toronto there are many crowds and taking sides is lose-lose.

"Also, aping the names of bigger clubs only calls attention to what MLS isn't — a European league."

It's almost like conceeding that you're the second rate league and pointing attention to it. It's like naming something Spritz Up instead of 7Up just to let people know that you're the knockoff version.

I'm not too obsessed over names - I started supporting the Wiz in this league FFS - but a name like the Toronto Tigers is bland and inoffensive (well maybe it links to Hamilton, how about the Toronto Lions/Bears/Eagles) and won't harm the team. I fear that this name harms the team before a ball has been kicked. That's why I care.

It won't affect my support. But I don't think it puts the team in the best position to succeed and much like Raptors it gives the media something to rightly criticize and ridicule.

cheers,
matthew

[Karam]

I am against naming the team Inter Toronto FC. MLSE shouldn't try to please a certain community, they should please all the residents of Toronto.

Some people also say that naming the team United is the same as Inter, but United is an english name and english is an official language,a canadian language. Italian is not an official language.

I'm not a great supporter of MLS coming to Toronto, I'm sick of canadians running to America every time we dont have something great(a soccer league). Naming the team Inter would ruin my support for the team.

[Karam]

quote:Originally posted by zacRWE

Im not sure on Northmen. That is pretty bad too, the Peter North(men) maybe?
Toronto FC is the best there, but City is the way to go!
I definitly agree with you. Toronto City would be the best name. Alot of people agree because it doesn't single out a certain ethnic group. It represents Toronto.

[BHTC Mike]

Question:

Other than emailing Cathal Kelly and saying "thanks for writing what I was thinking" (which I suggest doing if you agree with him) is there a way that people can let MLSE know that they are not encouraged by the Inter Toronto name? Other than one back-channel method I happen to be lucky to have can't think of another way of contacting MLSE - do they have any sort of public customer service email address?

I'll state again that I think Toronto City is really the perfect name to encapsulate the international unity/diversity duality that MLSE wants to appeal to. The pitch is simple: Toronto is "Our City" no matter where you came from and Toronto City is the club that represents the entire city - all Saturday morning alleigences vanish on Saturday night when Toronto is "One City." The "My City" line of subway ads and TV spots is so obvious I can't believe it hasn't been suggested in at least one meeting. Plus, the name has history and is generic enough to not sound like it's ripping off any one team (I'm pretty sure that England alone has something like 15 professional clubs called City and it's probably in the 100's worldwide).

Someone, on BigSoccer made the good point that MLS has gone through two distinct naming periods. The early "youth-oriented", NA style [city] [nickname] flashy names like Wiz, Fusion, Clash, and Burn and the newer "Euro-poseur" (his word) names like REaL Salt Lake, FC Dallas, Houstan 1836, and possibly Inter TO. What stands out though is not that one style is better than the other but that they both work better when they don't feel like they're trying to hard.

Good names frome the early period that have really caught on include DC United, Chicago Fire, SJ Earthquakes, and (I would argue) LA Galaxy. From the current period I think FC Dallas and Chivas USA feel natural while Houstan Dynamo may just end up working out (I must admit I thought it was horrible at first).

To me Toronto City feels more like the latter group than the former - I can't say the same for Inter Toronto. Toronto City retains the [city] [nickname] cadence familiar to NA fans while still screaming SOCCER CLUB to anyone who already follows the game. All in all it's a name that stradles the gap quite admirably. Plus there's no team called City in the league at the current time.

So MLSE: WHY NOT?

Mike.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Karam

I am against naming the team Inter Toronto FC. MLSE shouldn't try to please a certain community, they should please all the residents of Toronto.

Some people also say that naming the team United is the same as Inter, but United is an english name and english is an official language,a canadian language. Italian is not an official language.

I'm not a great supporter of MLS coming to Toronto, I'm sick of canadians running to America every time we dont have something great(a soccer league). Naming the team Inter would ruin my support for the team.


A few things - "Inter" is not really an Italian word, so the point about Italian not being an official Canadian language is a bit moot.

Second, while I don't really like the Inter Toronto name and would prefer a better one which is less likely to cause un-necessary fuss (though no matter what they choose, MLSE will get complaints), I would be surprised if MLSE seriously thinks they are trying to please a certain community at the expense of others. However, that does beg the question of what the motivation in choosing that name is, if they have chosen it. I still get the feeling that it is the MLS preferred name more than MLSE.

Lastly, in terms of Canadians running to Americans for help every time, last time round in term of soccer they came to us. So they owed us one.

Cue Franky's explanatory post on the last point. :)

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by Karam

Naming the team Inter would ruin my support for the team.


So you would not support the team, just because of its nickname? I'm sorry but that is a ludicrous statement.

[Franky]

yes G-L, on cue; it was 1993, the Americans had but 4 (four) pro teams left (technically three, one was an expansion franchise) and no dignity left (whatsoever). The MNT was fairly competitive, but will fall into a downward spiral. The Americans were banking on the 1994 World Cup for a legacy in the future, yes the MLS but until then, where are players going to play. with only four teams remaining, APSL were going to close shop altogether. ALong comes JOEY SAPUTO and GETS PERMISSION FROM THE CSA TO ENTER A CANADIAN FRANCHISE INTO THE APSL (GET IT MONTREAL!!!, ISN"T IT IRONIC, DON'T YOU THINK, LOL!!)

APSL now approaches CSL for a merger but are not keen on the idea, except Vancouver's Lenarduzzi, who starts rekindling memories of the old NASL heydays and envisions the possibility of a reborn NASL. Franky Aliaga Sr. owner of the Montreal Supra, feels he should apply for the montreal spot instead of Joey's, but is refused. Joe Parolini and the Blizzard salivate at the idea of a reborn NASL, so they apply too. CSA grants the 86ers and Blizzard permission to enter the APSL, Fontana (Rockets), Cantafio (Fury), Aliaga Sr. (Supra) all denied????? wtf. thus, ending the CSL, as it moves forward and merges with Rocco Lofranco's NSL Ontario and Quebec (bad move) creating the CNSL.

Therefore, American players are allowed a stay of execution until the MLS is finally drawn up and players are hand picked from the existing APSL/A-League whatever it was called at the time. Ohhh btw, the A-League in a desperate attmpt to salvage their product, invite the USISL??? to merge and create an expanded A-League. Thus again, ending Lenarduzzi's dream of resurrecting the old NASL and 86ers face off with the likes of, the Zodiac, Flash, Geckos, Thunder, Jaguars, who else??? uhmm...Riverboat Gamblers (luv that one), Nashville (network) Metros, etc, etc.

Now getting back to the Italian thing. i don't know... but doesn't Inter stand for International meaning in any language you put it, it refers to the same CRAP!!

INTER is SYNONYMOUS to INTER MILAN, there are some obscure teams out there with the name Inter but don't carry the same profile like the aforementioned euro power. Case in point, REAL is world reknown for REAL Madrid, but REAL, however you put it, is espanol in any way you cut it. Thats the difference.

NOW.....being a Juventino, Inter is a B-I-T-T-E-R rival in my neck of the woods, from Italy to internal family matters. Inter cuts a gash into my throat that i find hard to swallow. Now people think MLSE are catering to Italians in general are DEAD, DEAD, DEAD wrong because if you support Roma, AC MILAN (ohhh god!!!), Juventus (like myself). Inter can only mean one thing, INTER MILAN!!! thats it.

huhhh...if that is the name...that it is going to be, i will have no choice, in the matter, but to support it (definitely better than supporting the Hartrell's Lynx). i will, for the good of the sport and the soccer scene here, turn a blind eye and grit my teeth (break out the niteguard thats for sure) and support the Toronto MLS team whole heartedly.

I was all for nicknames; City, United, Blizzard, Union, Black Squirrels but if it is not meant to be, then it is not meant to be. we as fans, will have create the history for this squad and hopefully, steer away (SOMEHOW) from the coat tails of ewww, Inter Milan.

Catering to Italians only, i think not, only a mere segment, thats all, get it right out there.

[Grizzly]

I don't like the name Inter either, too much association with one team so it sounds very derivative. There are a few other Inters in Europe also outside Italy, Inter-Bratislava comes to mind, but none are big clubs like inter-milan. At least names like City, United, Dynamo are a bit more generic and associated with several teams. I don't like cute nicknames but a well chosen nickname can be good and I think Blizzard was a good one as is Whitecaps but I am not fond of the Impact or Lynx names at all. A Euro style name would be fine as long as it was not too derivative.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by BHTC Mike

Question:

Other than emailing Cathal Kelly and saying "thanks for writing what I was thinking" (which I suggest doing if you agree with him) is there a way that people can let MLSE know that they are not encouraged by the Inter Toronto name? Other than one back-channel method I happen to be lucky to have can't think of another way of contacting MLSE - do they have any sort of public customer service email address?

I'll state again that I think Toronto City is really the perfect name to encapsulate the international unity/diversity duality that MLSE wants to appeal to. The pitch is simple: Toronto is "Our City" no matter where you came from and Toronto City is the club that represents the entire city - all Saturday morning alleigences vanish on Saturday night when Toronto is "One City." The "My City" line of subway ads and TV spots is so obvious I can't believe it hasn't been suggested in at least one meeting. Plus, the name has history and is generic enough to not sound like it's ripping off any one team (I'm pretty sure that England alone has something like 15 professional clubs called City and it's probably in the 100's worldwide).

Someone, on BigSoccer made the good point that MLS has gone through two distinct naming periods. The early "youth-oriented", NA style [city] [nickname] flashy names like Wiz, Fusion, Clash, and Burn and the newer "Euro-poseur" (his word) names like REaL Salt Lake, FC Dallas, Houstan 1836, and possibly Inter TO. What stands out though is not that one style is better than the other but that they both work better when they don't feel like they're trying to hard.

Good names frome the early period that have really caught on include DC United, Chicago Fire, SJ Earthquakes, and (I would argue) LA Galaxy. From the current period I think FC Dallas and Chivas USA feel natural while Houstan Dynamo may just end up working out (I must admit I thought it was horrible at first).

To me Toronto City feels more like the latter group than the former - I can't say the same for Inter Toronto. Toronto City retains the [city] [nickname] cadence familiar to NA fans while still screaming SOCCER CLUB to anyone who already follows the game. All in all it's a name that stradles the gap quite admirably. Plus there's no team called City in the league at the current time.

So MLSE: WHY NOT?

Mike.



Well, just to play devil's advocate and show you how naming a soccer team really is a difficult thing....I will tell you why I would not support "City"....more than 1/2 of the population of the GTA do not live in the "city" of Toronto...you try that " one city, one team" stuff on us 905ers and we will withdraw our support and refuse to attend!!!!

[Grizzly]

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.

Yep, the Mississauga Ice Dogs and the Brampton Battalion have to share their fanbase with the TORONTO Maple leafs. I have seen no campaigns to have Leafs renamed The GTA Maple Leafs ;)

[BHTC Mike]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Well, just to play devil's advocate and show you how naming a soccer team really is a difficult thing....I will tell you why I would not support "City"....more than 1/2 of the population of the GTA do not live in the "city" of Toronto...you try that " one city, one team" stuff on us 905ers and we will withdraw our support and refuse to attend!!!!



Now I presume you're being slightly facetious in your devil's advocacy but really... I'm from freakin' Burlington (the west end of the GTA) and I'm the one suggesting the name - which all my (admittedly British-centric) Burlington resident soccer friends have been hoping for as well.

Now, notwithstanding that my soccer loyalties lie with Hamilton (RIP Thunder, play-up whoever comes along next) and that I'd prefer an exclusively Canadian league I do want this team to succeed since it'll give me a chance to watch decent calibre soccer close to home. Quite frankly Toronto City sounds a lot better than Toronto Area. At this point though I'd really prefer just about any non-ridiculous name to a total rip-off like Inter. At least Northmen is distinct... and could definately lead to Monty Python's Lumberjack Song being adopted as club anthem.

Mike.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Franky

yes G-L, on cue; it was 1993, the Americans had but 4 (four) pro teams left (technically three, one was an expansion franchise) and no dignity left (whatsoever). The MNT was fairly competitive, but will fall into a downward spiral. The Americans were banking on the 1994 World Cup for a legacy in the future, yes the MLS but until then, where are players going to play. with only four teams remaining, APSL were going to close shop altogether. ALong comes JOEY SAPUTO and GETS PERMISSION FROM THE CSA TO ENTER A CANADIAN FRANCHISE INTO THE APSL (GET IT MONTREAL!!!, ISN"T IT IRONIC, DON'T YOU THINK, LOL!!)

APSL now approaches CSL for a merger but are not keen on the idea, except Vancouver's Lenarduzzi, who starts rekindling memories of the old NASL heydays and envisions the possibility of a reborn NASL. Franky Aliaga Sr. owner of the Montreal Supra, feels he should apply for the montreal spot instead of Joey's, but is refused. Joe Parolini and the Blizzard salivate at the idea of a reborn NASL, so they apply too. CSA grants the 86ers and Blizzard permission to enter the APSL, Fontana (Rockets), Cantafio (Fury), Aliaga Sr. (Supra) all denied????? wtf. thus, ending the CSL, as it moves forward and merges with Rocco Lofranco's NSL Ontario and Quebec (bad move) creating the CNSL.

Therefore, American players are allowed a stay of execution until the MLS is finally drawn up and players are hand picked from the existing APSL/A-League whatever it was called at the time. Ohhh btw, the A-League in a desperate attmpt to salvage their product, invite the USISL??? to merge and create an expanded A-League. Thus again, ending Lenarduzzi's dream of resurrecting the old NASL and 86ers face off with the likes of, the Zodiac, Flash, Geckos, Thunder, Jaguars, who else??? uhmm...Riverboat Gamblers (luv that one), Nashville (network) Metros, etc, etc.




Right you are brother !

Canada's professional soccer landscape sacrificed itself tp prop- up the wounded American clubs. The CSL Champion Winnipeg Fury were discarded, as well as the North York Rockets. Both clubs were founding members of the CSL.

The real crime of the CSA is not about who was cut from this national youth team or that national youth team. It's how they sacrificed our national league to salvage the American's. Not surprisingly, look how things have revearsed fortunes since 1992 ! Kevan Pipe and the USL essentially destroyed any vision of a Canadian League. They have not even provided us with the Dominion Cup, that was promised years ago.

[Richard]

You know, you lot slag Kevan Pipe endlessly. Has it ever occurred to any of you that he serves at the pleasure and under the direction of the board of directors of the CSA who are responsible for the management of the affairs of The Association? That the CSA has a Professional Soccer Committee that deals with matters relating to professional soccer. Kevan Pipe does not operate in isolation and while he is responsible for the day to day operation of the CSA he does not work in a vacuum and is subject to censure at any time should he make decisions or take actions that are not consistent with the policies and will of the board of directors and the membership. Maybe more people ought to actually read the Bylaws of the CSA, see http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/docs/constitution.pdf!

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.


Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.
I think you're really reaching here.

There is absolutely nothing insulting about the name 'City', IMO.


quote:Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!
Both of them are Euro rip offs, but Inter is blatantly attacheing itself to the glory of one team, whereas there are easily half a dozen 'City' teams that come to mind when that name is invoked.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.


Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

I live in Whitby and I have no problem with City. It's my second favourite after United and I think it is the least controversial. To those outside of the GTA, I live in Toronto - it's easier and we all do it. 905ers will be fine with City - especially if the alternative is a non-word designed to only appeal to one segment, of one ethnic group, that largely resides in one neighbourhood.

Inter is not a word in any language. City is an actual word in English, and English is one of Canada's official languages, is the most spoken, best understood, is shared with the country that all the other MLS teams operate in, and is the primary language of Toronto's and Canada's biggest media outlets. And while "Inter" is really only about one team, I believe that there are 13 team's in England's top four divisions with "City", to say nothing of non-league teams, and other countries. So "City" is not a rip-off the way that "Inter" is. Afterall, we are talking about a team for the City of Toronto.

Yes, this board is abit British-centric, but so is most of Canada, and even the Toronto area. Toronto (formerly York) and Mississauga may have native-Canadian names, but how about Hamilton and Oakville? Here's a fun game: go look at the names of towns and cities to the East of Toronto (Scarborough, Pickering, Whitby, ect), now go look at a map of the East coast of England. BTW, if you check-out the excellent website about endangered British clubs (www.clubsincrisis.com - everyone should see this), you will see that Whitby's small club is threatened because it's cannot get approval to replace it's old condemned stands.

A final note: for those who say "who cares what the name is, we are getting a professional team", you should care. Teams fail and disappear. It's happened before, and it can happen again. The name that is chosen, along with the colours, logo, players and management team, will all play apart in determining whether or not this team makes it. Given the importance of a name in appealing to fans and selling merchandise - crucial factors to the team's bottom line - you should care about the name.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by KAS


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

[quote]Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.


A final note: for those who say "who cares what the name is, we are getting a professional team", you should care. Teams fail and disappear. It's happened before, and it can happen again. The name that is chosen, along with the colours, logo, players and management team, will all play apart in determining whether or not this team makes it. Given the importance of a name in appealing to fans and selling merchandise - crucial factors to the team's bottom line - you should care about the name.

That is your opinion. I am on record as being one of those who don't care - but supports the Inter name.

Toronto Blue Jays is a good name? Wonder what the reaction was to that when the name was announced? Or how about Toronto Rock?

I don't particularly like either of those names, yet it doesn't seem to hinder the support they receive(d) from Toronto fans.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan

Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.
I think you're really reaching here.

There is absolutely nothing insulting about the name 'City', IMO.


quote:Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!
Both of them are Euro rip offs, but Inter is blatantly attacheing itself to the glory of one team, whereas there are easily half a dozen 'City' teams that come to mind when that name is invoked.


As has been pointed out by others, there are other "Inters" and they are not specifically tied to Italian teams....I think someone pointed out a team in Brataslavia and there is one in South America....showing that Inter (short for International...or other language equivalents) really does reflect the international flavour of Toronto.....how many of those half a dozen 'City's' are outside of England?

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by KAS


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.


Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

I live in Whitby and I have no problem with City. It's my second favourite after United and I think it is the least controversial. To those outside of the GTA, I live in Toronto - it's easier and we all do it. 905ers will be fine with City - especially if the alternative is a non-word designed to only appeal to one segment, of one ethnic group, that largely resides in one neighbourhood.

Inter is not a word in any language. City is an actual word in English, and English is one of Canada's official languages, is the most spoken, best understood, is shared with the country that all the other MLS teams operate in, and is the primary language of Toronto's and Canada's biggest media outlets. And while "Inter" is really only about one team, I believe that there are 13 team's in England's top four divisions with "City", to say nothing of non-league teams, and other countries. So "City" is not a rip-off the way that "Inter" is. Afterall, we are talking about a team for the City of Toronto.

Inter is, obviously, just a short form for Internationale (or other language equivalents) so to say it is not a word....a bit of a stretch....there are other "Inters" and they are not all Italian...all of the "Citys" seem to be British....so which name is pandering to one ethnic group?


quote:
Yes, this board is abit British-centric, but so is most of Canada, and even the Toronto area. Toronto (formerly York) and Mississauga may have native-Canadian names, but how about Hamilton and Oakville? Here's a fun game: go look at the names of towns and cities to the East of Toronto (Scarborough, Pickering, Whitby, ect), now go look at a map of the East coast of England. BTW, if you check-out the excellent website about endangered British clubs (www.clubsincrisis.com - everyone should see this), you will see that Whitby's small club is threatened because it's cannot get approval to replace it's old condemned stands.

Relevance please?

quote:
A final note: for those who say "who cares what the name is, we are getting a professional team", you should care. Teams fail and disappear. It's happened before, and it can happen again. The name that is chosen, along with the colours, logo, players and management team, will all play apart in determining whether or not this team makes it. Given the importance of a name in appealing to fans and selling merchandise - crucial factors to the team's bottom line - you should care about the name.


The name only matters if fans stay away from the team because of the name....what I have seen since the "Inter" name was rumoured to been a whole lot of people saying "there they go, pandering to the Italians" and this suggests that non-Italian's will stay away because of the name. I would suggest that this "tribalism" is what has always hurt the game in the Toronto area and it looks like it is continuing on.

[G-Man]

I'm sure the Hartwells will get the blame when pogey park sits empty, except for a few thousand Italian Inter supporters. I'll come up with the best name for the team:

Toronto Blues FC. A nice White Maple Leaf on a blue sheild (al-la the hockey team). A classic blue and white uniform. Labatts as a major sponsor. And of course the FC to keep the North American Europhiles happy.

BUT NO. Lets pander to the largest segement of the largest ethnic group.

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man
The name Toronto Blues FC, now seems to look like a decent fit.

Taken at face value, the above comment is the most constructive thing I've heard from that poster. However, U of Ts varsity teams are known as Blues, so that name may not fly for MLS.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner


quote:Originally posted by G-Man
The name Toronto Blues FC, now seems to look like a decent fit.

Taken at face value, the above comment is the most constructive thing I've heard from that poster. However, U of Ts varsity teams are known as Blues, so that name may not fly for MLS.


I think it works on so many levels. But then again, I'm sure MLS a league that brought you the Clash, 1836, Fusion and Wiz would be against a name that the whole city could buy into without the whole ethnic thing creeping in.

Come on you BLUES.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by KAS


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

TO that is technically true, but how many 905ers really consider themselves residents of Mississauga or whatever other Toronto suburb. When I meet someone from Mississauga they almost always tell me they are from Toronto. The Leafs/Raptors/Jays names are not 905 inclusive either but that doesn't seem to bother anyone.


Yes all of those names start with toronto as would "Toronto City" but it is the "City" part that I find to be insulting to the 905ers.

Also I do not understand why the use of Inter is a Euro rip off but City is not?

I really think it is the predominance of Brit/Brit Heritage people on these board which makes traditional British name ok but a historic Italian name a "rip off"!

I live in Whitby and I have no problem with City. It's my second favourite after United and I think it is the least controversial. To those outside of the GTA, I live in Toronto - it's easier and we all do it. 905ers will be fine with City - especially if the alternative is a non-word designed to only appeal to one segment, of one ethnic group, that largely resides in one neighbourhood.

Inter is not a word in any language. City is an actual word in English, and English is one of Canada's official languages, is the most spoken, best understood, is shared with the country that all the other MLS teams operate in, and is the primary language of Toronto's and Canada's biggest media outlets. And while "Inter" is really only about one team, I believe that there are 13 team's in England's top four divisions with "City", to say nothing of non-league teams, and other countries. So "City" is not a rip-off the way that "Inter" is. Afterall, we are talking about a team for the City of Toronto.
Inter is, obviously, just a short form for Internationale (or other language equivalents) so to say it is not a word....a bit of a stretch....there are other "Inters" and they are not all Italian...all of the "Citys" seem to be British....so which name is pandering to one ethnic group?

quote:
Yes, this board is abit British-centric, but so is most of Canada, and even the Toronto area. Toronto (formerly York) and Mississauga may have native-Canadian names, but how about Hamilton and Oakville? Here's a fun game: go look at the names of towns and cities to the East of Toronto (Scarborough, Pickering, Whitby, ect), now go look at a map of the East coast of England. BTW, if you check-out the excellent website about endangered British clubs (www.clubsincrisis.com - everyone should see this), you will see that Whitby's small club is threatened because it's cannot get approval to replace it's old condemned stands.
Relevance please?
quote:
A final note: for those who say "who cares what the name is, we are getting a professional team", you should care. Teams fail and disappear. It's happened before, and it can happen again. The name that is chosen, along with the colours, logo, players and management team, will all play apart in determining whether or not this team makes it. Given the importance of a name in appealing to fans and selling merchandise - crucial factors to the team's bottom line - you should care about the name.
The name only matters if fans stay away from the team because of the name....what I have seen since the "Inter" name was rumoured to been a whole lot of people saying "there they go, pandering to the Italians" and this suggests that non-Italian's will stay away because of the name. I would suggest that this "tribalism" is what has always hurt the game in the Toronto area and it looks like it is continuing on.

Ok, a quick reply to your three points:

1. International is an English word, Inter is not. Toronto International is ok if you can convince people you are talking about a team and not an airport. Inter Toronto, however, is purely a rip-off of Milan's shortened name/nickname. Naming the City of Toronto's new team "Toronto City" seems fine to me. At the very least, the name should be a proper English word.

2. Relevence? York/Toronto and the surrounding area was largely founded and built by United Empire Loyalists and immigrants from the British isles. Using a name of British origin is not uncommon and could hardly be considered offensive. Mentioning the importance of attracting the 905 belt only supports the acceptability of a British-based name as the 905 belt is still mostly WASPs and including them in your marketing plan only reduces the importance of any individual downtown immigrant community. If a euro-based name is to be chosen, and any choice is going to be considered "pandering", then it is best to pander to the majority of the GTA population.

3. I agree that tribalism is a problem in garnering widespread support among a diverse population, but I belive that the attacks on Inter as "pandering to the Italians" is not a sign of tribalism on the part of the posters. Rather, it is a sincere effort to eliminate tribalism by encouraging MLSE to not pick a name that will be divisive. Attacking "Inter" as being unsuitable for a large multi-cultural city is not tribalism, it is the supporters of such a name who will be promoting tribalism.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by KAS

Ok, a quick reply to your three points:

1. International is an English word, Inter is not. Toronto International is ok if you can convince people you are talking about a team and not an airport. Inter Toronto, however, is purely a rip-off of Milan's shortened name/nickname. Naming the City of Toronto's new team "Toronto City" seems fine to me. At the very least, the name should be a proper English word.

So if the team was called International Toronto or Toronto International and then the fans/media shortened it to Inter you would be ok with it? All that MLSE seem to be suggesting is cutting out that middle step. If getting a proper English language word is so important, I presume you are in favour of renaming the Leafs the Maple Leaves? The Marlies the Malboroughs? The Argos the Argonauts?



quote:
2. Relevence? York/Toronto and the surrounding area was largely founded and built by United Empire Loyalists and immigrants from the British isles. Using a name of British origin is not uncommon and could hardly be considered offensive. Mentioning the importance of attracting the 905 belt only supports the acceptability of a British-based name as the 905 belt is still mostly WASPs and including them in your marketing plan only reduces the importance of any individual downtown immigrant community. If a euro-based name is to be chosen, and any choice is going to be considered "pandering", then it is best to pander to the majority of the GTA population.

Large portions of the 905 are not Brits. The Woodbridge/Vaughan/Maple areas have very large Italian populations. Markham is home to a lot of people of Oriental descent. Brampton and Mississauga have very large South East Asian populations. Is it not appropriate to reflect the population of the Toronto area as it is now as opposed to what it was in the 50's? Why stop there...go back before the Europeans came here and call them the Toronto Iroquois(sp?).


quote:
3. I agree that tribalism is a problem in garnering widespread support among a diverse population, but I belive that the attacks on Inter as "pandering to the Italians" is not a sign of tribalism on the part of the posters. Rather, it is a sincere effort to eliminate tribalism by encouraging MLSE to not pick a name that will be divisive. Attacking "Inter" as being unsuitable for a large multi-cultural city is not tribalism, it is the supporters of such a name who will be promoting tribalism.


If the name is Internationals how is that pandering to any group? It is reflective of what the city is. Are you saying you will not go if the team is called Inter or Internationals? If so, that is tribalism just as when none of my British relatives/friends would go to Metros Croatia games because "it wasn't their team".

[Richard]

Anybody who refuses to attend MLS games for no other reason than they don't like the team names is a rather pathetic excuse for a soccer fan.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Anybody who refuses to attend MLS games for no other reason than they don't like the team names is a rather pathetic excuse for a soccer fan.


Anyone who panders to ethic tribalism is a pathetic excuse of an ownership group. Or anyone who needs close to 60 million in government hand-outs to get involved with pro soccer is a pathetic excuse of an ownership group.

And anyone who dares questions said ownership group is standing up for the game in this country. Which once again is following a well travelled path of failure- simply by not understanding the market.

Corporate Canada doesn't a ratsass about the game in this country. And naming the team Inter-Toronto is simply proof of that. What's next signing Fabien Bartez?

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by KAS
1. International is an English word, Inter is not. Toronto International is ok if you can convince people you are talking about a team and not an airport. Inter Toronto, however, is purely a rip-off of Milan's shortened name/nickname. Naming the City of Toronto's new team "Toronto City" seems fine to me. At the very least, the name should be a proper English word.
So if the team was called International Toronto or Toronto International and then the fans/media shortened it to Inter you would be ok with it? All that MLSE seem to be suggesting is cutting out that middle step. If getting a proper English language word is so important, I presume you are in favour of renaming the Leafs the Maple Leaves? The Marlies the Malboroughs? The Argos the Argonauts?

quote:
2. Relevence? York/Toronto and the surrounding area was largely founded and built by United Empire Loyalists and immigrants from the British isles. Using a name of British origin is not uncommon and could hardly be considered offensive. Mentioning the importance of attracting the 905 belt only supports the acceptability of a British-based name as the 905 belt is still mostly WASPs and including them in your marketing plan only reduces the importance of any individual downtown immigrant community. If a euro-based name is to be chosen, and any choice is going to be considered "pandering", then it is best to pander to the majority of the GTA population.
Large portions of the 905 are not Brits. The Woodbridge/Vaughan/Maple areas have very large Italian populations. Markham is home to a lot of people of Oriental descent. Brampton and Mississauga have very large South East Asian populations. Is it not appropriate to reflect the population of the Toronto area as it is now as opposed to what it was in the 50's? Why stop there...go back before the Europeans came here and call them the Toronto Iroquois(sp?).

quote:
3. I agree that tribalism is a problem in garnering widespread support among a diverse population, but I belive that the attacks on Inter as "pandering to the Italians" is not a sign of tribalism on the part of the posters. Rather, it is a sincere effort to eliminate tribalism by encouraging MLSE to not pick a name that will be divisive. Attacking "Inter" as being unsuitable for a large multi-cultural city is not tribalism, it is the supporters of such a name who will be promoting tribalism.

If the name is Internationals how is that pandering to any group? It is reflective of what the city is. Are you saying you will not go if the team is called Inter or Internationals? If so, that is tribalism just as when none of my British relatives/friends would go to Metros Croatia games because "it wasn't their team".

Now this is a fun debate!

1. I would not like the choice of International, but it would be more acceptable than Inter. Fans/media are always welcome to invent new names (particularly with soccer clubs) and they may surprise you and be more inventive than Inter. BTW, Toronto's real FC is called the Argonauts, with Argos and The Boatmen being nicknames, and I know that atleast the first Marlies were really Marlboroughs. Leafs/Leaves is a well known error, but it doesn't justify anything. Generally speaking, *most* team names are proper words, it's others who later butcher them. Official names should be held to a higher standard than nicknames.

2. I know that many people in the 905 are not of British extraction, I did not say otherwise. I was pointing out that they still remain the largest single group in the 905, which is true. We don't have to go back to the 1950's. So, if a Euro-based name was to be chosen, a British name, which would make sense in the primary language of the area, the MLS, and the media, would be the most useful and least controversial. Obviously, if you want to go with a distinctly Canadian name, then that would be fine, but that is not what we were discussing - this is about the best Euro-name if one is to be chosen.

3. Internationals would still be pandering *IF* it was clear that MLSE was really going after the Inter Milan connection and using the "International city" line as an excuse. If they stayed away from the use of "Inter" and any Inter Milan connection, then the name would be boring, but not pandering. Remember that it is Inter Toronto FC that is being rumoured, and creating the accusations of pandering, not Internationals.

As for me, I will go to the first game regardless of the name. Further attendence would depend on my circumstances and how the team is run. Where the name would affect my participation is in merchandise purchases, as I will not pay good money to look stupid (I can do that on my own). BTW, it is ok to ignore teams like Metros Croatia and Serbian White Eagles because they were deliberately designed to cater to certain groups, and did not even try to be inclusive - so just as they have lived off of ethnic pandering, they deserve to face the negative aspects of pandering. This is not tribalism on the part of Brits, it is about consumers choosing to not support a product/service that does not even try to serve their needs.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by Richard

Anybody who refuses to attend MLS games for no other reason than they don't like the team names is a rather pathetic excuse for a soccer fan.
Anyone who panders to ethic tribalism is a pathetic excuse of an ownership group. . .

And anyone who dares questions said ownership group is standing up for the game in this country. Which once again is following a well travelled path of failure- simply by not understanding the market.

Corporate Canada doesn't a ratsass about the game in this country. And naming the team Inter-Toronto is simply proof of that. What's next signing Fabien Bartez?

At the risk of destroying any credibity I may have, I am forced to agree with G-Man on this.

Richard, I doubt that the team name alone would dissuade many from attending (except maybe AC Milan, Juve, and Roma supporters - who may not have gone anyways), but a horrible name like Inter Toronto FC can play a role in keeping people away. This is not just about pandering to some/insulting others, rather it reflects a sincere concern about the competence of MLSE.

If it appears that MLSE is incompetent, then the risk of failure in a city that has seen so many soccer teams fail before greatly increases. Those who have been on the rollercoaster before, may be reluntant to invest any of their time, money and heart into a team that appears to be dead from the start. If MLSE screws this up, then they might screw-up alot of other things (colours/logo/marketing/management team/player selection). We already know that Pogey Park won't even have a roof! At the very least, a stupid name could hurt merchandise sales, which increases the chances of the team being a financial failure - and MLSE is not in this for the love of the sport.

I will be attending the team's first game. Further attendence and any merchandise purchases on my part will be dependent upon factors that are still unknown. One can choose to ignore the local team, especially if it is incompetently run, and still be a real soccer fan. Otherwise, one would have to conclude from Lynx attendence that Toronto only has about two thousand real soccer fans.

[KAS]

For those supporters of all the "other Inters" out there, in less than an hour (1PM) Gol TV will be showing a game featuring the Brazilian Inter. Those at home with Digital TV should be able to catch most of it before the Champions League game.

BTW, without watching the game, or looking on the internet, can anybody name any players from the "Brazilian Inter" squad? I would suggest that most soccer fans could name more members of Inter Milan's regular starting eleven then they could any starters, reserves, or youths from all the other "Inters" combined! That is why I think Inter Toronto FC is pathetic and pandering.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by KAS


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by KAS
1. International is an English word, Inter is not. Toronto International is ok if you can convince people you are talking about a team and not an airport. Inter Toronto, however, is purely a rip-off of Milan's shortened name/nickname. Naming the City of Toronto's new team "Toronto City" seems fine to me. At the very least, the name should be a proper English word.
So if the team was called International Toronto or Toronto International and then the fans/media shortened it to Inter you would be ok with it? All that MLSE seem to be suggesting is cutting out that middle step. If getting a proper English language word is so important, I presume you are in favour of renaming the Leafs the Maple Leaves? The Marlies the Malboroughs? The Argos the Argonauts?

quote:
2. Relevence? York/Toronto and the surrounding area was largely founded and built by United Empire Loyalists and immigrants from the British isles. Using a name of British origin is not uncommon and could hardly be considered offensive. Mentioning the importance of attracting the 905 belt only supports the acceptability of a British-based name as the 905 belt is still mostly WASPs and including them in your marketing plan only reduces the importance of any individual downtown immigrant community. If a euro-based name is to be chosen, and any choice is going to be considered "pandering", then it is best to pander to the majority of the GTA population.
Large portions of the 905 are not Brits. The Woodbridge/Vaughan/Maple areas have very large Italian populations. Markham is home to a lot of people of Oriental descent. Brampton and Mississauga have very large South East Asian populations. Is it not appropriate to reflect the population of the Toronto area as it is now as opposed to what it was in the 50's? Why stop there...go back before the Europeans came here and call them the Toronto Iroquois(sp?).

quote:
3. I agree that tribalism is a problem in garnering widespread support among a diverse population, but I belive that the attacks on Inter as "pandering to the Italians" is not a sign of tribalism on the part of the posters. Rather, it is a sincere effort to eliminate tribalism by encouraging MLSE to not pick a name that will be divisive. Attacking "Inter" as being unsuitable for a large multi-cultural city is not tribalism, it is the supporters of such a name who will be promoting tribalism.

If the name is Internationals how is that pandering to any group? It is reflective of what the city is. Are you saying you will not go if the team is called Inter or Internationals? If so, that is tribalism just as when none of my British relatives/friends would go to Metros Croatia games because "it wasn't their team".

Now this is a fun debate!

1. I would not like the choice of International, but it would be more acceptable than Inter. Fans/media are always welcome to invent new names (particularly with soccer clubs) and they may surprise you and be more inventive than Inter. BTW, Toronto's real FC is called the Argonauts, with Argos and The Boatmen being nicknames, and I know that atleast the first Marlies were really Marlboroughs. Leafs/Leaves is a well known error, but it doesn't justify anything. Generally speaking, *most* team names are proper words, it's others who later butcher them. Official names should be held to a higher standard than nicknames.

So lets get them to call it International and let common usage shorten it to Inter...as I said, I think all MLSE is guilty of is cutting out that step. The current Marlies are just that, the Marlies. You sorta lost me on Leafs....because it is "accepted" then the improper name is ok? Then if we just accept "Inter" why would that not be ok?


quote:
2. I know that many people in the 905 are not of British extraction, I did not say otherwise. I was pointing out that they still remain the largest single group in the 905, which is true. We don't have to go back to the 1950's. So, if a Euro-based name was to be chosen, a British name, which would make sense in the primary language of the area, the MLS, and the media, would be the most useful and least controversial. Obviously, if you want to go with a distinctly Canadian name, then that would be fine, but that is not what we were discussing - this is about the best Euro-name if one is to be chosen.


Whether the Brits are still the largest group in the 905...I am not sure....Statscan want $60 for that report section from the census....more than I am willing to spend on this debate. Anectdotally, however, I doubt it is true anymore....and if it is, current trends in immigration/migration/birth rates will render it false in the near future. There was a lot of talk during the recent election about the changing faces of the 905 candidates....more ethnically diverse candidates were seen as an indication of the changing population in the region. In any event, it still shows that International is still a good reflective name for the area. On your "controversial" point, Inter is only "controversial" if people choose to make it so.


quote:
3. Internationals would still be pandering *IF* it was clear that MLSE was really going after the Inter Milan connection and using the "International city" line as an excuse. If they stayed away from the use of "Inter" and any Inter Milan connection, then the name would be boring, but not pandering. Remember that it is Inter Toronto FC that is being rumoured, and creating the accusations of pandering, not Internationals.

What I have heard/read is that the team is likely to be "Inter", the colours are likely red and white and the explanation of the name is that it reflective of the internationally diverse population of Toronto. Is it pandering or simply "short forming" of a legit name?


quote:
As for me, I will go to the first game regardless of the name. Further attendence would depend on my circumstances and how the team is run. Where the name would affect my participation is in merchandise purchases, as I will not pay good money to look stupid (I can do that on my own). BTW, it is ok to ignore teams like Metros Croatia and Serbian White Eagles because they were deliberately designed to cater to certain groups, and did not even try to be inclusive - so just as they have lived off of ethnic pandering, they deserve to face the negative aspects of pandering. This is not tribalism on the part of Brits, it is about consumers choosing to not support a product/service that does not even try to serve their needs.

I will give you that teams in the CNSL or NSL like Serbian White Eagles were meant to cater to a specific group. Even Toronto Croatia in the NSL and CPSL is so. In leagues with multi teams in the Toronto area, I actually do not see anything wrong with this. If the Brampton Stallion renamed itself the Brampton Brits then you could have rivalries based on, and celebrating, the cultural diversity of the area. When you are talking about a league with one team from all of the Toronto area, that is another kettle of fish.

Metros-Croatia of the NASL was something entirely different. The Croatian community of Toronto "saved" NASL soccer in Toronto when the Metros were going to fold. No other business or ethnic group stepped up and saved the team. I am hard pressed to remember any movement to make the team "all Croatian" (like the Lithiuanian revolution Romanov has brought to Hearts) in fact I remember a lot of non-Croatians in starring roles and I remember a Soccer Bowl championship. I also remember substantial amounts of other Brits asking me why I was supporting "their" team with my money instead of going to British-based TD league team games for free.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by KAS


BTW, without watching the game, or looking on the internet, can anybody name any players from the "Brazilian Inter" squad? I would suggest that most soccer fans could name more members of Inter Milan's regular starting eleven then they could any starters, reserves, or youths from all the other "Inters" combined! That is why I think Inter Toronto FC is pathetic and pandering.


For every player on Man City that you can name, then, name one from Bradford City, Norwich City, Bristol City etc etc etc.

It is the same concept.....the whole "there are tons of Uniteds and Cities etc etc etc" argument doesn't hold....there may be multiples but there is generally one team at mind.....one British team at that.

[G-Man]

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.




Not that it is relevant...but you do know that Milan is one of the premier fashion/modelling centres in the world? Your image of Milanese women is apparantly it bit different than mine!

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.




Not that it is relevant...but you do know that Milan is one of the premier fashion/modelling centres in the world? Your image of Milanese women is apparantly it bit different than mine!



more off topic drivel...I wonder what the percentage of models in Milan are actually Italian. Sorta like how many Brits start for Chelsea.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by TOareaFan


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.





Not that it is relevant...but you do know that Milan is one of the premier fashion/modelling centres in the world? Your image of Milanese women is apparantly it bit different than mine!



more off topic drivel...I wonder what the percentage of models in Milan are actually Italian. Sorta like how many Brits start for Chelsea.


Even if it is only 2 out 11....that's not bad.

[Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Toronto Blues, they'd have sexy cheerleaders in tight blue spandex shorts with knee high blue boots and tight girl cut jerseys.

With Inter-Toronto I picture some fat mustached Italian widow in her black mourning outfit- with a straw broom in her hand.




That is an idiotic post, mostly because it combines pure stupidity with ethnic typing (totally ignorant about Lombardy to boot).

Usually I don't mind your way of posting G-Man, but that one suggests you need to take advantage of spring weather and get outside.

[mlsintoronto]

At some point in the next 24 hours, you all will be able to go to www.torontoprosoccer.com and vote for your choice of:

Toronto FC
Inter Toronto FC
Toronto Northmen FC
Toronto Nationals
Toronto Reds
or Other.

At some point in the future we'll all laugh about the chain of events that led to the very passionate opinions on Inter. There is an explanation for the things that are registered vs don't need to be registered vs can't be registered...

Suffice to say that many keyboard strokes were wasted on this issue!

The site will be up until April 30, I think. You can also get your name on the list for ticket info.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by mlsintoronto

At some point in the next 24 hours, you all will be able to go to www.torontoprosoccer.com and vote for your choice of:

Toronto FC
Inter Toronto FC
Toronto Northmen FC
Toronto Nationals
Toronto Reds
or Other.

At some point in the future we'll all laugh about the chain of events that led to the very passionate opinions on Inter. There is an explanation for the things that are registered vs don't need to be registered vs can't be registered...

Suffice to say that many keyboard strokes were wasted on this issue!

The site will be up until April 30, I think. You can also get your name on the list for ticket info.


Can't access the site. Which is a shame.

[mcaout]

Wow MlsinT.O. closing the show with the choose your own adventure option. Well I just got through all 9 pages, and I agree with a lot of what I read. Inter does pander to Euro-team/some Italians. But as pointed out that's the route MLS is taking these days, copying other teams names or pushing for an ethnic support. I don't like Inter, City, United, Real, Orient, or whatever they've all been done, and to use any of them would be copying.

I also think its unfortunate that people would not go because of the name. So my solution, which I feel really represents the polyethnic, creative, energtic and passionate character the Toronto Soccer Scene seems to have is go by what name you like. If you and your 15 buddies are huge AC fans, don't skip the games, you 15 dudes call them AC Toronto. Make T shirts in the team colours (Blue and white surely) and instead of the logo MLSE chooses make your own, or adapt the logo so instead of "Inter" it says "AC" everything else could probably be the same. Use chants that don't play up the "Name" but the city, the colours, the players, other truely unique and characteristic aspects of what the team really is. If you had different supporters groups supporting the Toronto MLS team in there own ways, using the soccer culture they are comfortable with, that they love then in the stadium you would have what I feel is likely a more truthful, colourful, representation of the soccer scene and the city. You can call yourselves international or diverse or whatever but this would make your team without a recognized name the only one in the world. So people would probabily just call it Toronto. And I think Toronto as a team name is great. But if you must call it something else then do so, its your team call it what you like, just make sure you support it and if making the team more 'you' is what you need to do, then do it.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Can't access the site. Which is a shame.He said "at some point in the next 24 hours", and he said that just a couple of hours ago.

&lt;mod&gt; Also, Jeffrey's objections to your earlier comments are valid. Please refrain from such comments. &lt;/mod&gt;

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by DJT


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Can't access the site. Which is a shame.He said "at some point in the next 24 hours", and he said that just a couple of hours ago.

&lt;mod&gt; Also, Jeffrey's objections to your earlier comments are valid. Please refrain from such comments. &lt;/mod&gt;


Noted. I promise not to mock the looks of Italian women. I just hope the days of posting images of young nubile females within threads are also a thing of the past. What's worse, describing an image of an aging Italian widow or posting softcore porn?

And why advertise something when it's not ready? sorry to say but it's pretty bush.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by DJT


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Can't access the site. Which is a shame.He said "at some point in the next 24 hours", and he said that just a couple of hours ago.

&lt;mod&gt; Also, Jeffrey's objections to your earlier comments are valid. Please refrain from such comments. &lt;/mod&gt;


Noted. I promise not to mock the looks of Italian women. I just hope the days of posting images of young nubile females within threads are also a thing of the past. What's worse, describing an image of an aging Italian widow or posting softcore porn?

And why advertise something when it's not ready? sorry to say but it's pretty bush.

WTF???

I agree, Hollywood should stop advertising movies that aren't ready.....

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by mcaout

Wow MlsinT.O. closing the show with the choose your own adventure option.

That's awesome.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by mcaout


I also think its unfortunate that people would not go because of the name. So my solution, which I feel really represents the polyethnic, creative, energtic and passionate character the Toronto Soccer Scene seems to have is go by what name you like. If you and your 15 buddies are huge AC fans, don't skip the games, you 15 dudes call them AC Toronto. Make T shirts in the team colours (Blue and white surely) and instead of the logo MLSE chooses make your own, or adapt the logo so instead of "Inter" it says "AC" everything else could probably be the same. Use chants that don't play up the "Name" but the city, the colours, the players, other truely unique and characteristic aspects of what the team really is. If you had different supporters groups supporting the Toronto MLS team in there own ways, using the soccer culture they are comfortable with, that they love then in the stadium you would have what I feel is likely a more truthful, colourful, representation of the soccer scene and the city. You can call yourselves international or diverse or whatever but this would make your team without a recognized name the only one in the world. So people would probabily just call it Toronto. And I think Toronto as a team name is great. But if you must call it something else then do so, its your team call it what you like, just make sure you support it and if making the team more 'you' is what you need to do, then do it.



Aside from the obvious exaggeration, I actually kind of agree with this. And this is why I like Toronto FC. It's clean, fairly classy, but most importantly, it's a blank slate that fans can project their own identities on. This can be ethnic identity, national identity, or just stylistic preferences. The important thing is it leaves it up to the fans.

This reminds me of these Jewish Hab fans I saw a while back who had made shirts with the "CH", but inside the logo they had inserted Hebrew text that spelled out the name of the team. I thought it was really neat how they had applied their own cultural traditions to the team. It's appropriate too, since Jews have always constituted one of Montreal's major cultural communities since the early mid-1800's, so it was a reflection of how that community is an entrenched, permanent part of Montreal civic culture and life while still a distinct group. It's like a manifestation of the multicultural idea: diverse groups come together to contribute to and build one community with a common civic identity in the centre while still retaining distinct cultures. In this case, the Habs acted as a symbol of that unified centre. It was like order from chaos.

On the other side of the fence, it'd be terrible if MLSE decided to just pander to one ethnic group and thus create a static and limiting official image when this team could possibly act as a unifying force for all the soccer-loving cultural communities in Toronto. Let the Italians call it AC Toronto, or the Portuguese the Samba Boys. The important thing is it all traces back to the same reference point.

[mcaout]

Jayway thank you for your imput but just want to be clear on two things:
1. I support the fan lead evolution of the name to Toronto. That is because it would be the only common link between all the various names and simultaniously the definitive embodiment of the supporters, team, management, city and everything related to the MLS team.

2. I was not at all exaggerating but dreaming of a post-modern soccer team, apart from anything seen before.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by mcaout



2. I was not at all exaggerating but dreaming of a post-modern soccer team, apart from anything seen before.


Do you think Michael Ondaatje would endorse our team?

Maybe we can have an Ondaatje Theme night. On this day the second half can be played first and half-time can be held sometime following pre-game warm-ups. Finally, the game will end in an ambigious draw, providing little satisfaction and few answers.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by loyola


quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by DJT


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Can't access the site. Which is a shame.He said "at some point in the next 24 hours", and he said that just a couple of hours ago.

&lt;mod&gt; Also, Jeffrey's objections to your earlier comments are valid. Please refrain from such comments. &lt;/mod&gt;


Noted. I promise not to mock the looks of Italian women. I just hope the days of posting images of young nubile females within threads are also a thing of the past. What's worse, describing an image of an aging Italian widow or posting softcore porn?

And why advertise something when it's not ready? sorry to say but it's pretty bush.

WTF???

I agree, Hollywood should stop advertising movies that aren't ready.....



Ha, yeah... MLSE should also not announce anything more about the team until Opening Day of 2007.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

And why advertise something when it's not ready? sorry to say but it's pretty bush.

WTF???

I agree, Hollywood should stop advertising movies that aren't ready.....


[/quote]

This is supposed to be the top level of the pro game in North America. But it seems like it's run by interns looking to hit soccer forums to brag and show-off. Why not just wait the 4 hours until it was up and running to ejaculate? Was there an official press release that went out to various media outlets? or was the link provided here the only press given to this very soddy looking webpage (check out the real MLS homepage- nice and slick)

And beware, no where on the site does it say that it won't sell the information it gathers to 3rd parties. Why have a drop down menu for countries, when you can't vote unless you're from Canada?? And what kind of on-line voting page requires a address?? The only thing missing is demand for credit card info.

At worst it's a bad attempt at data mining and creating a mailing list by someone in need of legal advice. And at best, it's simply someone is having a good laugh on the scarf crowd. If you are.. BRAVO.

I doubt the end voting results will have any say at MLS HQ. Who at the end will be naming the team to fit into it's vision. This is a league that controls players contracts from a central office. That once moved it's star player (Donovan) from San Jose to LA without consulting fans on whether their franchise player should be re-assigned to it's biggest rival! I wonder if the Quakes GM was even consulted?

Thus screwing over a core group of loyal fans in a great soccer market to sell tickets in it's biggest market. So I wonder if they'd allow an intern to create a webpage asking fans to vote on a team name? This so JR B Hockey and so unlike the MLS. (which does a great job on it's website controlling content and look)

[Richard]

I see www.torontoprosoccer.com is now open for business.

[speedmonk42]

Hmmm

I can't seem to make the form submit, or there is no indication that it has submitted.

Not sure if it is me, or how the thing works.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

This is a league that controls players contracts from a central office. That once moved it's star player (Donovan) from San Jose to LA without consulting fans on whether their franchise player should be re-assigned to it's biggest rival!
Thanks for the history lesson. You forgot the part where Donovan left MLS for Bayer Leverkusen.

I'm not going to respond to the other stuff.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Hmmm

I can't seem to make the form submit, or there is no indication that it has submitted.

Not sure if it is me, or how the thing works.



hopefully you didn't provide any real info on yourself. cause right now, someone might have your IP address, service provider, home address, phone numbers, email account.

and add that up with a real name...and some bad intentions. It's funny what people will give away to a stranger on the internet, but not on a street corner.

and Rudi..some more history...Donovan signed with Bayern when he was 17. So what's the point? he wasn't signed with the MLS. And had he been, the MLS would have gotten any transfer fees and not his MLS club. So the fans of that MLS club, had he been signed, would have lost the best young American player of his generation and not even gotten the cash to reload it's roster.
[xx(]

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Hmmm

I can't seem to make the form submit, or there is no indication that it has submitted.

Not sure if it is me, or how the thing works.

Did you fill in all the required fields on the form part to the right? Required fields are marked with an asterisk. Without doing so it won't accept your vote.

[canadian_bhoy]

they should have called the team the Toronto St Pat's. inter toronto is a really cheesy really bad name...St pat's is good b/c it has something to do with toronto. MLSE dropped the ball huge on this one...I won't support inter italian community of toronto fc (no offense to italians)

[speedmonk42]

hopefully you didn't provide any real info on yourself. cause right now, someone might have your IP address, service provider, home address, phone numbers, email account.
------------------


Well that info has been given out soooo many times it must be accessible in hundreds of different ways. My email address combo is now very very old.

It is possible, but man if you are going to go to the work of pilfering such information there has to be better places than the 50 or so you might get from this forum.

I can't say I am too concerned.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

So the fans of that MLS club, had he been signed, would have lost the best young American player of his generation and not even gotten the cash to reload it's roster.
[xx(]

I wasn't aware that the fans were entitled to any money in regards to transfer fees. [8)]

By buying into MLS, each investor /operator knows the single entity set up of the league, as each investor owns a piece of that entity. The league gets the transfer money, the team gets an allocation to use on another player.

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

So the fans of that MLS club, had he been signed, would have lost the best young American player of his generation and not even gotten the cash to reload it's roster.
[xx(]

I wasn't aware that the fans were entitled to any money in regards to transfer fees. [8)]

By buying into MLS, each investor /operator knows the single entity set up of the league, as each investor owns a piece of that entity. The league gets the transfer money, the team gets an allocation to use on another player.


but in the MLS supporters are supposed to support their teams even if the league deem that another market needs a winner more.

it's the anti-league or the closest thing to communism in pro sports. it's no longer, what's good for my club, but what's good for the league. There's a reason why KC is **** and LA isn't. Why Salt Lake will never win a cup and why larger markets will have rosters that favour their chances...

I doubt any real football nation would stand for it. Imagine the NHL run that way.

And in the end, the supporters groups who wear scarves and spend thousands on face painting supplies will always get the shaft.

I'll stick to supporting the USL. Thanks.

[Jeffery S.]

I will vote for an other: Toronto City.

Of all the names heard on these boards, and after musing for a long while, I think it is the best. It's enduring, it is clear, it has history without referencing clearly a single club. I was not sure at first, but I have been convinced, those defending it here have done a good job. I seriously doubt anyone in greater TO would mind either.

Of the others suggested on the site, I think Northmen is useless, I have stated my opinion about Inter, think Reds is not appropriate for TO. If any Toronto FC would be acceptable. I also like the Blizzard, it is a great name, but since it seems they have decided against it from the start, I won't waste my vote on it.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

There's a reason why KC is **** and LA isn't.
[u]Current MLS standings</u>
KC Wizards 3-0-0 9pts
LA Galaxy 1-1-1 4pts

[u]MLS Cup Winners</u>
4 - DC United
2 - LA Galaxy
2 - San Jose Earthquakes
1 - Kansas City Wizards
1 - Chicago Fire

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

There's a reason why KC is **** and LA isn't.
[u]Current MLS standings</u>
KC Wizards 3-0-0 9pts
LA Galaxy 1-1-1 4pts

[u]MLS Cup Winners</u>
4 - DC United
2 - LA Galaxy
2 - San Jose Earthquakes
1 - Kansas City Wizards
1 - Chicago Fire




We'll see where they sit in September. A few trades should help the slumping larger markets. And by the way-- San Jose is a huge market with some 10 million living in a 50KM radius. So in 10 years, the 4 largest markets have won 9 of 10. All we need is New York with a title.

Funny how Columbus isn't in that list.

[Rudi]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man


quote:Originally posted by Rudi


quote:Originally posted by G-Man

There's a reason why KC is **** and LA isn't.
[u]Current MLS standings</u>
KC Wizards 3-0-0 9pts
LA Galaxy 1-1-1 4pts

[u]MLS Cup Winners</u>
4 - DC United
2 - LA Galaxy
2 - San Jose Earthquakes
1 - Kansas City Wizards
1 - Chicago Fire




We'll see where they sit in September. A few trades should help the slumping larger markets. And by the way-- San Jose is a huge market with some 10 million living in a 50KM radius. So in 10 years, the 4 largest markets have won 9 of 10. All we need is New York with a title.

Funny how Columbus isn't in that list.

Neither is New York, New England or Dallas.

Clearly MLS is holding those three small markets down.

(DC is a much smaller market than either Dallas or Boston, btw)

[BHTC Mike]

This really deserves a new thread.


quote:Originally posted by G-Man
it's the anti-league or the closest thing to communism in pro sports. it's no longer, what's good for my club, but what's good for the league.

Absolutely right! But...


quote:There's a reason why KC is **** and LA isn't. Why Salt Lake will never win a cup and why larger markets will have rosters that favour their chances...

Absolutely not! MLS is designed to create parity and allow small market teams to have a chance of winning - too much parity IMHO. In fact, it's model is causing the British soccer press to take a serious look at it because they perceive it as a solution to the UNcompetiveness of the EPL. The unrestrained "free-market" is what creates big city domination not MLS communism.



quote:I'll stick to supporting the USL. Thanks.

Good for you. I'll support whatever (non-ethnic based) CPSL happens to return to Hamilton whenever that happens. I'll also probably have MLS-TO season tickets though because it'll give me a chance to watch the highest level of soccer in the US/Can on a regular basis. Consider it like a Tranmere fan happening to watch Liverpool when schedules don't conflict.

Mike.

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I will vote for an other: Toronto City.


[8D]Hooray for Jeffrey! I did too.

[KAS]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

hopefully you didn't provide any real info on yourself. cause right now, someone might have your IP address, service provider, home address, phone numbers, email account.
------------------

Well that info has been given out soooo many times it must be accessible in hundreds of different ways. My email address combo is now very very old.

It is possible, but man if you are going to go to the work of pilfering such information there has to be better places than the 50 or so you might get from this forum.

I can't say I am too concerned.
Although it is unlikely that MLSE will take out credit cards in your name (I think the teachers' pensions are doing ok right now), that webpage is still troubling. There is no reason to demand that much info just to cast a vote. This is a very unprofessional marketing/data mining attempt and it is not necessary in my opinion.

Although fraud is highly unlikely, the lack of a standard privacy statement on the website, or any guarantee, means that those who actually gave real info can expect to receive plenty of spam/junk mail/telemarketer calls from MLSE, its partners, and anyone else they choose to sell the info to. That is why I have not voted yet (it would be for OTHER - probably for City), but I might later using fake info.

[speedmonk42]

The website, err domain, was registered by a guy named Terry Ham and C3 Marketing. Don't know if they are associated with MLSE or not. It is located in Toronto(the registrant address).

I think we are being paranoid, and even filling out every bit of that info accurately, it is still available in so many other ways and if your email and address combo has been stable for any length of time it's already in .... everything.

[TOareaFan]

quote:Originally posted by KAS


quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

hopefully you didn't provide any real info on yourself. cause right now, someone might have your IP address, service provider, home address, phone numbers, email account.
------------------

Well that info has been given out soooo many times it must be accessible in hundreds of different ways. My email address combo is now very very old.

It is possible, but man if you are going to go to the work of pilfering such information there has to be better places than the 50 or so you might get from this forum.

I can't say I am too concerned.
Although it is unlikely that MLSE will take out credit cards in your name (I think the teachers' pensions are doing ok right now), that webpage is still troubling. There is no reason to demand that much info just to cast a vote. This is a very unprofessional marketing/data mining attempt and it is not necessary in my opinion.

Although fraud is highly unlikely, the lack of a standard privacy statement on the website, or any guarantee, means that those who actually gave real info can expect to receive plenty of spam/junk mail/telemarketer calls from MLSE, its partners, and anyone else they choose to sell the info to. That is why I have not voted yet (it would be for OTHER - probably for City), but I might later using fake info.


This is actually quite amusing.

One of the legit criticisms of MLSE since they got the franchise and control of the stadium we are building has been the lack of information/marketing/etc.

They make the first step by having a vote and a clear grab at names they can market to and we get all worried that they are going, now, to communicate with us!!!

I voted (For Inter without the FC) and gave them my information and say "bring it on, tell me all, sell me tickets, jerseys and fan club memberships....just tell me something!".

[G-Man]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

The website, err domain, was registered by a guy named Terry Ham and C3 Marketing. Don't know if they are associated with MLSE or not. It is located in Toronto(the registrant address).

I think we are being paranoid, and even filling out every bit of that info accurately, it is still available in so many other ways and if your email and address combo has been stable for any length of time it's already in .... everything.


Terry Ham? C3 Marketing?

Why isn't this registered in MLSE's name?

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by G-Man

Terry Ham? C3 Marketing?

Why isn't this registered in MLSE's name?



Hmmm, perhaps it's because they're an online marketing company with experience in professional sports, including the NFL?

I mean, God forbid you should do some research on the company when there's trolling to be done.

[speedmonk42]

My apologies to the fellow for posting his name and such. It is however public record and freely available on the Network Solutions site.

I did intend it as a means of support, and not conviction of something guilty.

If someone knows more information please share it.

Lets get this damn team started, and like the other guy said, send all the info you want on MLS.

I have changed my mind though, I am now a Toronto City fan.