View Full Version : Canada-Cuba Game Thread (R)
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 05:24 PM
Let's try to do a single thread for the game while on.
I think I can get some radio, but would very much appreciate some comments from those watching, as RadioUnica tends to banter about on other stuff and don't call the play.
Make the ball run, so you don't have to.
-Johan Cruyff
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 05:29 PM
CSA site has this lineup for Canada, Canizalez for Bent, who must be still hurting. This might give us a bit more touch and a bit less weight, though Maycoll can go forward and Stalteri stay back, perhaps alternating:
Starters
22-Lars Hirschfeld
2-Paul Fenwick
3-Richard Hastings
5-Jason deVos (C)
7-Paul Stalteri
8-Daniel Imhof
10-Kevin McKenna
11-Martin Nash
12-Nick Dasovic
15-Maycoll Canizalez
16-Chris Pozniak
Make the ball run, so you don't have to.
-Johan Cruyff
I'll do some PBP in this thread...
Pre-game show on right now on Sportsnet, just waiting for kickoff :)
That lineup posted by Jeffrey S. is correct.
Game underway, a woefully small crowd at the 68k Gilette Stadium, looks like there is about 2-3000 max.
Cuba pressuring early, although nothing too dangerous to report as of yet.
Canizalez is sporting a newly shaved head, btw.
Emulating his new hero Lars Hirschfeld. I see you don't follow the Lenny Bobbaduzzi school of soccer commentary - "pressuring" would be "pressurizing". And of course, we would have a 'he would have done better to blah, blah, blah....." at some point.
Free the banana cream 3!
Actually I think I typed it "pressuring" because I heard Gerry say it a few moments previous :D
First ten minutes and Cuba has a lot more possession than they should.
As before, nothing to dangerous, but still unsettling.
This game is being played at a snail's pace right now, with Canada not able to string more than 2 consecutive passes together.
The lack of speed on this squad is disconcerting, though understandable given the abscene of Brennan, Radz, DeRo, Bent, Nsaliwa and Jazic.
As I was typing, Cuba scores... the backline for Canada is painfully slow.
1-0 Cuba at 14 minutes
Nice interplay between Hastings and Canizalez leads to a half chance by Hastings.
Stalteri then boots the ball way over the bar on the subsequent play.
25 minutes in...
Nash misses a glorious chance after a nice cross in from Hastings. The Cuban keeper did well to make himself as wide as possible an deflect Nash's half-volley from 10 yards out.
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 06:00 PM
Thanks for all this Rudi. Sounds like we are pushing a bit more.
Make the ball run, so you don't have to.
-Johan Cruyff
28 Minutes in...
McKenna robbed by Cuban keeper Molina (sp?). Kevin received a nice ball at the top of the 18 yard bx and blasted a hard volley that was tipped wide by the sprawling keeper.
Cuba with its first foray into the Canadian end since their goal ends in a ball booted well over the bar following a Cuban corner.
33 minutes in...
McKenna shot saved on a breakaway after a great through ball by Stalteri.
McKenna seems to be hobbling a bit after that play.
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 06:07 PM
Just so you know, your spelling of the Cuban keeper is right. Here is their lineup, scorer was Moré.
1-Odelin Molina
3-Jeniel Marquéz
4-Silvio Pedro Miñoso
5-Alexander Cruzata
6-Liván Pérez
7-Jorge Ramírez
10-Lester Moré
13-Maikel Galindo Castañeda
14-Jaime Colome
16-Reizander Fernández
17-Pedro Adriani Faife
Make the ball run, so you don't have to.
-Johan Cruyff
I was wondering about the spelling, since Cuba seems to be the only team allowed to play in an official competition without any names on the backs.
Can actually hear the Voyageurs (all 15 or so of them) and their drum/chants.
Good job, boys. [8D]
39 Minutes in and Canada already look like a very tired team.
Holger's going to have to make a sub or two at the half as the spark that was there for Canada over the past 15-20 minutes is now completely gone and Cuba is now keeping more of the possession as they did in the beginning of the game.
Nice shot of the Voyageurs banners behind the Cuban goal.
Stalteri gets a yellow for taking down the Cuban defender (Cruzata)that has been harassing him all game. A bit of gamesmanship by Cruzata I'm sure, although Stalteri wasn't 100% innocent either.
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 06:25 PM
WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!!
"Minority of one"
Half time whistle, still 1-0 Cuba.
I think McKenna needs to come off soon as the Cubans are privy to our strategy of sending in probing high balls to McKenna and are defending that tactic quite well.
On the other hand, the Cuban backline seem a little less organized when Canada keeps the ball on the ground, especially during the interplay between Stalteri and Nash (who is playing at right mid). I'd sub McKenna (who seems to be a bit off today, anyway) and perhaps give Hume a run up top with Stalteri. A radical move, perhaps, but it can't be any worse than what's happening right now for Canada.
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 06:26 PM
Cuban Colome got a yellow in m. 34 as well.
Radio Unica calls Cuban keeper the man of the match so far, while others criticize our finishing. Sounds like another recent match, though reverse?
Make the ball run, so you don't have to.
-Johan Cruyff
Jason
07-14-2003, 06:28 PM
A few halftime comments:
Canada looked horrible in the first 15 minutes. Since then, they've improved a bit. If they don't tie it up by the 55th to 60th minute, I'd like to see a sub. Xausa's my first choice. Bring in Corrazin for the last 15 or 20 minutes.
I've hardly even noticed that Imhoff is out there. Maybe he's the first that should be substituted.
Jason
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 06:30 PM
Leave McKenna on. Drop Stalteri into center mid 'cause God we're hurting and put a greyhound up front with Kev to work the Cuban flanks. MC2 gets the fu'k off the pitch. He's lost.
P.S. That greyhound's Hume.
P.S.S. Imagine what this match would have looked like without that early goal. Ug.
"Minority of one"
I'm really liking these "Great Moments in Canadian Soccer" clips that Sportsnet is sprinkling throughout the broadcasts.
They just showed the Canada/Brazil match from 94, and seeing Berdusco score that goal again was just awesome! [:o)]
Jason Bent just said in a half-time interview that he should be ready to go for Saturday should Canada make it through to the quarterfinals. Great news, IMHO.
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
Leave McKenna on. Drop Stalteri into center mid 'cause God we're hurting and put a greyhound up front with Kev to work the Cuban flanks. MC2 gets the fu'k off the pitch. He's lost.
A good point about McKenna (I think I was expecting more from him, but hell< i"m expecting more from the entire team!!). I think havinh Hume alongside McKenna while Stalteri runs things from just behind them is just what this team needs.
I'm not sure if I agree with your assesment of MC2, as he doesn't look any more lost than the rest of the Canadian team right now (aside from Stalteri, who seems to be the only one going at any kind of speed)
Damn, some nice looking wives of the Canadian players. Need to find out who the lucky husbands are ;)
Hume in for Canizalez.
More scores immediately off the kickoff.
Cuba 2, Canada 0
Nash immediately gets a chance on goal after the second Cuba goal, good coverage by keeper Molina.
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 06:42 PM
Can't bloody well believe it.
Stalteri with a weak header that Molina gobbles up easily and then proceeds to showboat to the delight of the Cuban crowd.
I'm not so sure the Cuban coach will be happy with that.
Duane Rollins
07-14-2003, 06:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rudi
Jason Bent just said in a half-time interview that he should be ready to go for Saturday should Canada make it through to the quarterfinals. Great news, IMHO.
He doesn't have to worry about it because Cuba just went up 2-0. canada won't be in the quarters.
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE.
Duane Rollins
07-14-2003, 06:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rudi
Jason Bent just said in a half-time interview that he should be ready to go for Saturday should Canada make it through to the quarterfinals. Great news, IMHO.
He doesn't have to worry about it because Cuba just went up 2-0. canada won't be in the quarters.
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE.
quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.
Can't bloody well believe it.
You an me both.
Looks like Hutchinson is warming up.
Canada pressing more now (as they obviously have to)
Game opening up a lot more now.
Cuba on their heels as they somehow survive two great chances by Canada, including one McKenna header cleared off the Cuban goal line.
57 Minutes in...
Cuban substitution, Fernandez out, Rivero in.
60 Minutes.
Hume makes a nice run down the right and crosses into McKenna, whose header lets him down and dribbles way wide.
64 Minutes in.
Canada really starting to move forward, still with no unltimate success.
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 06:57 PM
If we score these Cubans might fall apart. Have faith.
"Minority of one"
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
If we score these Cubans might fall apart. Have faith.
"Minority of one"
I agree, but we still have to score before that happens.
Fenwick gets a yellow for knocking over a Cuban with a late challenge. Not too bright.
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 07:02 PM
What the hell's Craig talking about?
Fenwick was looking to put his man on his arse.
"Minority of one"
72 Minutes in.
McKenna hauled down in the box but no call.
The Cubans are getting "injured" left and right now. I'm not sure how serious these injuries are, given the fact that the US game is scheduled for 8:30, roughly 22 minutes from now.
75 Minutes in.
Stalteri with a low shot that's saved well by Molina.
Immediately following that, McKenna put a high header over the bar, with the Cuban keeper well out of position.
77 Minutes in.
Hastings out. Corrazin in.
78 Minutes.
Molina makes yet another save on a low shot by a charging Stalteri.
80 Minutes in.
Hume flubs a perfect cross by Nash that left him wide open 8 yards out.
81 Minutes.
Cuba Substitution. Castaneda out. Dalcourt in.
82 Minutes.
McKenna heads in right at Molina, then Hume makes a great run and drills it into the side of the net.
God, we need some finishing!!!
84 Minutes.
Hutchinson in. Nash out.
Hume free kick.
DeVos heads the ball staright at Molina.
Canada wins a corner off a goalmouth flurry that included Stalteri rounding the keeper.
I can only imagine the outcome of this game if we had Radz and DeRo... (sigh)
Stalteri rounds the keeper again, and then gets muscled off the ball in front of a wide open net.
Corazzin with a great ball that is almost put into the net by a Cuban defender. Somehow McKenna can't get a foot on the rebound.
This is unbelieveable.
Cuban player with a horrendous playacting job after deflecting a Hume cross.
He waited about a half a second to go down and now he's rolling around as if he had been shot. Should have been a yellow.
5 Minutes of injury time.
Cubans flopping all over the place now, much to the ire of the now much larger crowd.
IT's just not meant to be for Canada tonight, I'm afraid...
McKenna heads another cross wide.
Jarrek
07-14-2003, 07:30 PM
Wow ... what a dissapointment. Solid showing from Hume however.
Final whistle.
Cuba 2
Canada 0
I don't like Cuba's chances against Costa Rica on Wednesday, as the Ticos are sure to be fired up over this result, and Cuba hardly did anything to convince me that they can defeat CR.
I'll give them credit where it's due, as they took full advantage of Canada's defensive miscues and buryed them.
Still, one has to wonder what the scoreline woulld have looked like with a real striker up top and perhaps Menezes organizing the backline.
No excuses, though, as Canada got what they deserved.
Jeffery S.
07-14-2003, 07:32 PM
Thanks a lot Rudi, good work on the thread.
As it stands if Costa Rica wins by 1, 2 or three we are out. Effectively Cuba can go through losing 3-0.
Not too optimistic really, though at least the Cubans will want to avoid the States and may actually play for something. Though I think, as is, we are out, as I don't expect the Ticos to fail their next match.
quote:Originally posted by Jarrek
Wow ... what a dissapointment. Solid showing from Hume however.
Definitely a great showing by Hume, who got a full second half to show what he can do for Canada at the right mid position. He acquitted himself very well, with intelligent runs down the flanks and some great probing crosses that really should have been buried by the Canadian frontrunners.
Amidst all the negative in this game (and there's plenty to go round), Hume stands out as a very bright positive.
Can't wait to see him and the U20s in UAE in November.
quote:Originally posted by Jarrek
Wow ... what a dissapointment. Solid showing from Hume however.
Definitely a great showing by Hume, who got a full second half to show what he can do for Canada at the right mid position. He acquitted himself very well, with intelligent runs down the flanks and some great probing crosses that really should have been buried by the Canadian frontrunners.
Amidst all the negative in this game (and there's plenty to go round), Hume stands out as a very bright positive.
Can't wait to see him and the U20s in UAE in November.
Duane Rollins
07-14-2003, 07:36 PM
Blah. I have NEVER felt worse about our Nats. I don't care how many chances we had in the last ten minutes, I don't care who we didn't have playing (injuries/unavailable players are a reality that you have deal with). I don't care about the excuses that are sure to follow this post. We just had our asses handed to us for 80 minutes by **CUBA**. Our MNT program is a bloody mess. Period.
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE.
Duane Rollins
07-14-2003, 07:36 PM
Blah. I have NEVER felt worse about our Nats. I don't care how many chances we had in the last ten minutes, I don't care who we didn't have playing (injuries/unavailable players are a reality that you have deal with). I don't care about the excuses that are sure to follow this post. We just had our asses handed to us for 80 minutes by **CUBA**. Our MNT program is a bloody mess. Period.
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE.
Christian B.
07-14-2003, 07:36 PM
I'm upset. No excuses are acceptable. We were playing one of the weakest Concacaf team. Not Brazil or France!!!!! The cuba defence was wide open......
I know that we beat Costa Rica (But luckily) I don't think that in the long run we can qualify for the WC right now. We can win a game in a while but we are not consistent enough. Radzinski might be the solution but I don't count on him to be with us in every game.
Poor finishing. That our number 1 problem and our defense is not anymore what it's used to be. (Gold cup 2000)
Christian B.
07-14-2003, 07:36 PM
I'm upset. No excuses are acceptable. We were playing one of the weakest Concacaf team. Not Brazil or France!!!!! The cuba defence was wide open......
I know that we beat Costa Rica (But luckily) I don't think that in the long run we can qualify for the WC right now. We can win a game in a while but we are not consistent enough. Radzinski might be the solution but I don't count on him to be with us in every game.
Poor finishing. That our number 1 problem and our defense is not anymore what it's used to be. (Gold cup 2000)
Jarrek
07-14-2003, 07:38 PM
quote:
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE
Well you're either a fan or not. Through the good, the bad and the ugly(tonight).
Jarrek
07-14-2003, 07:38 PM
quote:
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE
Well you're either a fan or not. Through the good, the bad and the ugly(tonight).
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 07:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rudi
I can only imagine the outcome of this game if we had Radz and DeRo... (sigh)
That was a strong, organised back line. I was actually impressed. Communicate well with their defensive mid.
It was begging to be shredded by some speed and overlapping play.
BLOODY HELL. BLOODY, BLOODY, BLOODY HELL.
"Minority of one"
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 07:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rudi
I can only imagine the outcome of this game if we had Radz and DeRo... (sigh)
That was a strong, organised back line. I was actually impressed. Communicate well with their defensive mid.
It was begging to be shredded by some speed and overlapping play.
BLOODY HELL. BLOODY, BLOODY, BLOODY HELL.
"Minority of one"
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
quote:Originally posted by Rudi
I can only imagine the outcome of this game if we had Radz and DeRo... (sigh)
That was a strong, organised back line. I was actually impressed. Communicate well with their defensive mid.
It was begging to be shredded by some speed and overlapping play.
BLOODY HELL. BLOODY, BLOODY, BLOODY HELL.
"Minority of one"
Precisely.
I was screaming at the TV every time the back three booted another long ball up to McKenna, only to have a Cuban defender step up and head the ball clear.
If it didn't work the first 50 times, why the hell did they thinkit would work the 51st time?
This team needs to have players like Brennan and Menezes at the back, because hoofing the ball upfield Fenwick-style just ain't gonna cut it, as tonight's debacle showed.
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
quote:Originally posted by Rudi
I can only imagine the outcome of this game if we had Radz and DeRo... (sigh)
That was a strong, organised back line. I was actually impressed. Communicate well with their defensive mid.
It was begging to be shredded by some speed and overlapping play.
BLOODY HELL. BLOODY, BLOODY, BLOODY HELL.
"Minority of one"
Precisely.
I was screaming at the TV every time the back three booted another long ball up to McKenna, only to have a Cuban defender step up and head the ball clear.
If it didn't work the first 50 times, why the hell did they thinkit would work the 51st time?
This team needs to have players like Brennan and Menezes at the back, because hoofing the ball upfield Fenwick-style just ain't gonna cut it, as tonight's debacle showed.
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 07:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy
Blah. I have NEVER felt worse about our Nats. I don't care how many chances we had in the last ten minutes, I don't care who we didn't have playing (injuries/unavailable players are a reality that you have deal with). I don't care about the excuses that are sure to follow this post. We just had our asses handed to us for 80 minutes by **CUBA**. Our MNT program is a bloody mess. Period.
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE.
Say this for Coo bah, they're very organised. That my fellows, for all it's overall lack of individual quality is a team. That is a side which shows a familiarity usualy only seen on a club level.
Bravo.
Lots of energy and purpose. They'd do better without the dramatics though.
Have a care. We owe you bastards one!
"Minority of one"
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 07:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy
Blah. I have NEVER felt worse about our Nats. I don't care how many chances we had in the last ten minutes, I don't care who we didn't have playing (injuries/unavailable players are a reality that you have deal with). I don't care about the excuses that are sure to follow this post. We just had our asses handed to us for 80 minutes by **CUBA**. Our MNT program is a bloody mess. Period.
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE.
Say this for Coo bah, they're very organised. That my fellows, for all it's overall lack of individual quality is a team. That is a side which shows a familiarity usualy only seen on a club level.
Bravo.
Lots of energy and purpose. They'd do better without the dramatics though.
Have a care. We owe you bastards one!
"Minority of one"
Canuck Oranje
07-14-2003, 07:51 PM
I didn't see the first goal yet but the second was awful. Hastings beaten with no speed to catch up... Speed is relative. Defence needs a complete retooling. DeVos needs a speedy partner. Pozniak was ok from what I saw but not sure of his outside speed. Maybe needs to be moved inside with a little more experience. Top level fullbacks have Stalteri and Brennan speed at minimum.. Don't see that in Hastings or Pozniak..
Not convinced Nash is the solution in midfield. Good at set plays but not much else.
Dasovic should not be on the pitch period. Ok today for parts but just not much value in playing a guy that is past it.
With a little luck, we had a couple but the Cuban goal(second) I saw should not happen. Very bad.
Hume and Hutchinson need to play more. McKenna just had bad luck. Stalteri needs to play deeper in midfield (Essentially a Bundesliga fullback player as an attacking midfielder).. Didn't see Canizales play but he's young so I wouldn't say a lot negative about him.
Gordon
07-14-2003, 07:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by Jarrek
Well you're either a fan or not. Through the good, the bad and the ugly(tonight).
Unfortunately tonight they supersized the bad and the ugly.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Sigma
07-14-2003, 07:56 PM
Couldn't score against a tired Cuban team.... we deserved the final result.
Oh well....
-------------------------
Sigma do toho!
mattbin
07-14-2003, 07:59 PM
Apparently I was a little premature with my rankings last game.
After Saturday we should not be in this position. I wonder if Holger was looking so calm because he was preparing his resume in his mind.
I've always backed Holger but we deserved better as a team, as fans, and as a country. To enter a game like this mentally unprepared is inexcusable. I think the reins should be handed to Ian Bridge immediately after the Gold Cup, and from there whoever gets it gets it.
I think I'll go watch the home run derby now. At least Canada can't lose that...
Allez les Rouges,
M@
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 08:01 PM
If Paul Fenwick hasn't played the best two games of his international career I'll eat my hat. Maybe not the best opponents, but damnit Paul's been taking suppliments or something. He's got his grit back!
Blame the midfield for the goals. I am. We're hurting in the middle third with Stalteri too far forward. Helped a little when MC2 got the hook but Bent was sorley missed. Nick has a role but not in this match. Hutchison was well suited for a start against this Cuban side. Came on too late as the front runners were spent.
Wrong starting 11 out there. New legs for some enthusiasm in hindsight.
"Minority of one"
Krammerhead
07-14-2003, 08:06 PM
Canada would make a great A-League squad.
In fact if I squinted at the screen I could just imagine that those red jerseys had "enmax" across the front of them.
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead
Canada would make a great A-League squad.
In fact if I squinted at the screen I could just imagine that those red jerseys had "enmax" across the front of them.
C'mon now, Krammer.
Everyone knows that there's no great A-League team with "enmax" on their jerseys ;)
You boys who were preaching to me about being top 4 maybe top 3 in CONCACAF, you have to stay late for some extra lessons.
Miss Ed, 1st Grade teacher.
Free the banana cream 3!
matthew
07-14-2003, 08:14 PM
We were awful. We came out totally disinterested and lacking passion. We showed effort once we were behind, but that just shows that any sort of 'two games in three days' excuse is steaming hot garbage. We had 10 times more energy in the final 10 than the first 10.
Does anyone remember the Gold Cup qualifier in the fall of 1999? Paul Stalteri will never score against a Cuban ever. He's our best player, but he's snake bitten. We were a one-trick poney tonight and we sucked bad. We came to the party like it was 1959 and even guys that I thought had been steady - Hastings, Imhof - sucked big moose tonight.
Well done to the Cubans, they played well, took the game to us, finished their chances, had some nice saves and deserved the win. They are much improved. But isn't everyone except for us?
I'm sick and tired of this. Maybe it's the beer talking, but Dasovic is even starting to look like Aunger. Fenwick was largely to blame for the first goal, but the midfield was absolutely lacking on the ball in. Hastings conspired on the second goal to an extent unseen since Fenwick's effort in Scotland. I've met Holger, he seems like a good guy, but we're being left behind. I'm sick of the excuses, I'm sick of watching games thinking "well all our good players aren't here, so put this in perspective". I'm sick of being a Canadian soccer fan. We never play at home, our coach never picks our better players, our best players don't show up, we keep calling on guys who drive me mental. I'm just tired of this. I cheer for the Roughriders and the Cubs, I'm used to team that always lose, but they can't make me this miserable.
I'm pretty sure that was Stalli's wife on the left and the one on the right was wearing a Hastings jersey (no. 3).
We're going to need a lot of help to make the second round and a miracle to get to the World Cup.
matthew
The secret of life is to find moments of levity and grace in what is, ultimately, a tragedy. Watching Canadian soccer is good practice for this.
quote:Originally posted by Ed
Miss Ed, 1st Grade teacher.
I think we have outr very first "outing" right here on the V-Board :D
We should still be striving for that top 4 ranking, as far away as it seems right now.
Gordon
07-14-2003, 08:17 PM
Lets see. The positives: Holger, Iain is ready to play for the senior team. With a little luck he could have had one or two. Probably a bad decision to try to chest down the ball - which hit his shoulder even though he was at full height in the air - instead of a header. But hey, he was moving like he knew what offence was about. Canizalez didn't do too much, but it was he and Hume who were involved in the few "Big Boy" offensive plays we brought to the park. They are very clearly offensive players. Nice touch by Miguel to spring Hastings in the first half and the resultant cross, which just missed McKenna, saw Nash with a decent chance. He is still a project, but has a nice upside. Stalteri worked hard, but had little to show for it. And the ball just wasn't bouncing for McKenna. He was just a touch to slow today. Both he a Stalteri were showing a lot of frustration too. Lars was fine. He really didn't have much of a chance on the goals. Liked what I saw of Hutchinson too. And Carlo has done well in his two sub appearances.
But overall we sucked. [V]
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 08:31 PM
Pretty good post Matthew, but untell I see the game again in a more sober light the first goal will be MC2's Cross, not Fenwicks. Paul was shadowing his man step to step. Could have been more on his hip, though. That free delivery through the top of the box which allowed the man to turn towards goal sunk them and that's not Fenwick's assighnment.
Holy, thought poor JDV was going to blow a gasket galloping back later in the game trying to sheppard that Cuban outside. Man, JDV did still have some gas left on that play. And more throttle than I'd have expected.
Remember lads, this is Cuba's very best team. The squad Holger has at this tourny is several grades below what we'll field come WCQ and we've got a half dozen fellows who're still learning their craft and getting better every day.
"Minority of one"
Krammerhead
07-14-2003, 08:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by matthew
Maybe it's the beer talking, but Dasovic is even starting to look like Aunger.
Give me a break, but thanks for proving a point I was making with a southsider I was watching the game with. During the match I mentioned that the new Voyageurs "whipping boy" is Dasovic, just like it was Aunger it the past. I guess it's easier to pick on one guy as opposed to saying the team played like crap.
There were plenty of Canadians that played worse than Dasovic tonight. Hell Stalteri shouldn't even be up front. Tonight he looked like he was playing for the Whitecaps and his name was "Niall Thompson".
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
Krammerhead
07-14-2003, 08:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
I'd have expected.
Remember lads, this is Cuba's very best team. The squad Holger has at this tourny is several grades below what we'll field come WCQ and we've got a half dozen fellows who're still learning their craft and getting better every day.
"Minority of one"
Can you guarantee that? I'm wary of always using the "we didn't field our best team" excuse.
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
Christian B.
07-14-2003, 08:40 PM
Remember lads, this is Cuba's very best team.
Geez! If we ever in the future play and loose against Antigua & Barbuda, I guess it will be because we faced their very best team......
matthew
07-14-2003, 08:42 PM
Krammerhead> I mean physically with the floppy hair and the blonde streaks. Not in their style of play. We all sucked today. I just thought the fact that Dassa was starting to look like Aunger had me flashing back to 1997 all over again.
And argue all you want. Dasovic is ready to retire from international play and Holger doesn't seem ready to let him.
The secret of life is to find moments of levity and grace in what is, ultimately, a tragedy. Watching Canadian soccer is good practice for this.
Duane Rollins
07-14-2003, 08:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by Jarrek
quote:
I HATE the fact I had to sign up for this forum. HATE. HATE. HATE
Well you're either a fan or not. Through the good, the bad and the ugly(tonight).
Oh please. A fan isn't blind.
loyola
07-14-2003, 08:48 PM
Dasovic, Hasting, Fenwick and Nash were terrible, the thing about Dasovic and Fenwick is that they are old guy that shouldn't be call.
Stalteri wasn't that bad I thought, only his finishing was terrible.
mattbin
07-14-2003, 08:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy
Oh please. A fan isn't blind.
I was. Tonight was a real eye-opener.
Allez les Rouges,
M@
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 08:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
I'd have expected.
Remember lads, this is Cuba's very best team. The squad Holger has at this tourny is several grades below what we'll field come WCQ and we've got a half dozen fellows who're still learning their craft and getting better every day.
"Minority of one"
Can you guarantee that? I'm wary of always using the "we didn't field our best team" excuse.
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
No! No, no, Christ no! No guarentee whatsoever!
But if the pricks want to still pull on the Maple Leaf 6 months from now I'll cheer them onto defeat or whatever! Someone else can have the footy mercenaries. I'm toasting my long suffering countrymen.
But you know what? Nick IS looking like Aunger out there! Between my beers, duh, tears, how I laughed!
"Minority of one"
torontosupport
07-14-2003, 08:52 PM
quote:I don't care how many chances we had in the last ten minutes, I don't care who we didn't have playing (injuries/unavailable players are a reality that you have deal with). I don't care about the excuses that are sure to follow this post. We just had our asses handed to us for 80 minutes by **CUBA**. Our MNT program is a bloody mess. Period.
I hate to say I agree. I'm tired of all the excuses.
Yes injuries are real.
Yes club commitments are real.
No, being shredded by Cuba is not real.
I was at the CR match on Sat., and had a great time. I was thrilled to see a Canada victory and became filled with a zealous hope for the future (stupidly).
This hope is dead already only days later.
I was overly exicted on Saturday, for obvious reasons. I'm overly depressed now, for different, yet obvious reasons. Sure, I will eventually achieve some kind of balance, but I know bloody well now that the CR victory was a bit of luck (which I did not want to admit).
It was CUBA, for cryin' out loud!!!
CUBA?
Gordon
07-14-2003, 08:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead
Can you guarantee that? I'm wary of always using the "we didn't field our best team" excuse.
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
Dead Fucqing On Krammerhead. We have to be able to put away the minnows of CONCACAF with this level of team if we want to contend. Yeah we were missing some players, but this was fucqing Cuba. And they took it too us. Played with a much higer level of sophisitication than us. And they sucked. Can't play defence to save thier ass, but it was good enough to beat us.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Krammerhead
07-14-2003, 09:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by matthew
Krammerhead> I mean physically with the floppy hair and the blonde streaks. Not in their style of play. We all sucked today. I just thought the fact that Dassa was starting to look like Aunger had me flashing back to 1997 all over again.
And argue all you want. Dasovic is ready to retire from international play and Holger doesn't seem ready to let him.
The secret of life is to find moments of levity and grace in what is, ultimately, a tragedy. Watching Canadian soccer is good practice for this.
Yeah, well I don't know about the blonde streaks. He's really too old for that crap. Yes perhaps he's too old to still be playing internationally, and considering he had already retired once he's knows it. My argument is he isn't the worst player on the pitch, and that says something about the Canadian squad.
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 09:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by Gordon
quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead
Can you guarantee that? I'm wary of always using the "we didn't field our best team" excuse.
"As nothing in this life that I've been trying
could equal or surpass the art of dying"-George Harrison
Dead Fucqing On Krammerhead. We have to be able to put away the minnows of CONCACAF with this level of team if we want to contend. Yeah we were missing some players, but this was fucqing Cuba. And they took it too us. Played with a much higer level of sophisitication than us. And they sucked. Can't play defence to save thier ass, but it was good enough to beat us.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Holy Geezus, Gordon! Did you take your laptop to the pub? Hey, I got three left in my case. How you doing?
"And they sucked." I'm dying here!!!:):):)
"Minority of one"
matthew
07-14-2003, 09:07 PM
I love Nick, really do, but the old boys club that seemed to be a problem with Bob is rearing it's head with Holger IMO. And at least I defended Bobby by saying it was a tough time to try to experiment in the middle of the hex. I don't know how you can explain continually using some of the same old players when we're not getting results.
I didn't get the blonde streaks either.
cheers,
matthew
The secret of life is to find moments of levity and grace in what is, ultimately, a tragedy. Watching Canadian soccer is good practice for this.
Gordon
07-14-2003, 09:12 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am with the boys till the bitter end. But I think we all have the right to some expectations. And we have the right to be upset when the boys put out a performance like this. We have a right to be pissed with Holger for the team being mentally unprepared at the start of both Halves. Jesus, if Italy or Germany a game like this in the Euro there wold be hell to pay. I am hoping that it is just one game, and that in 2 years I'll be looking back laughing about game. But while I could pull out some positives from Germany and Scotland, I can't from this one.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Georgio
07-14-2003, 09:13 PM
quote:If Paul Fenwick hasn't played the best two games of his international career I'll eat my hat. Maybe not the best opponents, but damnit Paul's been taking suppliments or something. He's got his grit back!
I suggest you watch the first goal again. Fenwick is number 2 isn't he?? He should have stuck close to the goal scorer and forced a longer range shot from the passer. Instead he was in no man's land caught between wondering if the offside trap was gonn be pulled, whether or not he should follow his man or shut down the passer. The midfield is at fault for that one too though. Fenwick also continually pumped balls in the air to McKenna when the Cuban man marker had beat him to every single one before that. I don't know if that's Holger or Fenwick though but you'd think he would change it up.
As far as the game went any excuse is just that and we seem to have more games like this with plenty of chances and no goals with Holger then with any other coach. Heck ... our only natural striker (HUME)played wide the whole second half. Like I said before if you really think about it without feeling all defensive Sampson's analysis of our playing tactics are quite accurate and proved correct today. We went in defensively with ... like Craig Forest said ... 9 of 11 starters being traditionally defensive minded players and two of them playing Striker.
If you have to be good to be lucky then then you have to be ****e to be that unlucky. I say we're somewhere in the middle - closer to mediocre especially with Holger coaching.
Maybe we'll get lucky though. Afterall, Holger did say this is his tournament.
Georgio
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 09:23 PM
Yeah, Georgio, should have been closer on his hip. But Paul's not exactly fleet of foot as many have pointed out.
Well never dought a defender who dosen't feel confortable pricking about in his own area and just hoofs it up field. Very, very, few goals are scored from 60 yards. That's of course a generalization, but you catch my drift.
"Minority of one"
Gordon
07-14-2003, 09:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by Cheeta
Holy Geezus, Gordon! Did you take your laptop to the pub? Hey, I got three left in my case. How you doing?
"And they sucked." I'm dying here!!!:):):)
"Minority of one"
Been having to take it easy as I have to transport kids to and fro. But I am a happy drunk, and wish I were there right now :) Instead, I am just an angry old man :(
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Georgio
07-14-2003, 09:27 PM
quote:Pretty good post Matthew, but untell I see the game again in a more sober light the first goal will be MC2's Cross, not Fenwicks. Paul was shadowing his man step to step. Could have been more on his hip, though. That free delivery through the top of the box which allowed the man to turn towards goal sunk them and that's not Fenwick's assighnment.
Sorry Cheeta,
didn't see this reply to Matthew's post. I would stick to the bottle for the rest of the evening though. I should have bought more beer for this game myself.
Georgio
Canuck Oranje
07-14-2003, 09:40 PM
Hey, given Hearts was using McKenna as a forward for the last half of the year, I would say he is a forward now.. He wasn't the problem tonight..
I'll say it again. Lack of pace in Defence was the huge problem problem. At the top level, defenders do lose a step at times but most of best can get it back. Didn't see that in either the Costa Rica game or the Cuba game. That will kill us against the best teams no matter how good our skills are.
Hume played well in the position he was given as did Hutchinson. With a little maturity Hutchinson still may be a central defender .. But that won't be for WCQ for 2006... Said the same about Pozniak before...
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 09:41 PM
You know what? There's something to be said for the scense of humor Canadian football fans have.
Here we are, having lost to Estonia and Cuba in the same year and I'm splitting my guts wide open when I should be crying.
Outstanding.
Did I mention Celtic came out of last season with, let's see know, fu'k all.
"Minority of one"
Jason
07-14-2003, 10:12 PM
I'm hoping this is the low point. After muddling around the last few years, playing friendlies in Europe every now and then, bringing together a few guys here and there, there seemed to be some misguided confidence that Canada is near the top of the "second tier" of CONCACAF. They couldn't even make the hex in 2002 qualifying, but somehow the Gold Cup success seemed to dull that pain.
If they would've put together an ugly draw or eked out a 1-0 victory tonight everything would've been confirmed: top in their group after beating Costa Rica and the improving Cubans. A victory over El Salvador would put them in the semis, and all would be right with the world. Now they've lost to an improving but very beatable Cuba.
The defense, which is supposed to hold the team together, looked slow. If you're not blessed with superior athletic ability, you can't make mental mistakes on the pitch, and Canada's defenders made those mental errors. As talented as the Cuban strikers are, they're nothing compared to the starters for the better teams in the region. On offense, Canada could not score no matter how many chances. I don't care that the two starting strikers weren't there. How often has Radz and DeRosario played together? It's not like they've developed this wonderful partnership. Others must step up to the plate. Corrazin gets criticized sometimes for being a one tourney wonder, but I'd gladly accept anyone in a red shirt that gets that hot over a five or six game time frame. Nobody else has done it lately.
Cuba showed that a group of players who actually spend some time together can defeat clubs who should be better than they are. Using that as a guideline, Canada has no hope against Mexico or the USA or even a full CR side. Meanwhile, the teams that they're supposed to be similar to all play together way more than Canada. The upstarts like Cuba and whichever other club that signs a good coach or gets hot at the right time will be able to play Canada as an equal. How Holger deals with that may be what determines if he can move this program forward.
Jason
DoyleG
07-14-2003, 10:19 PM
The Canadian team missed some good opprotunities to light up the scoreboard tonight. Their defence also left something less than impressive.
The problem is that I still can't get over the way the Cubans played tonight:(.
Being Brazillian doesn't make for good soccer. I wonder if the Ticos are going to fall victim to the same thing.
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 10:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by DoyleG
The Canadian team missed some good opprotunities to light up the scoreboard tonight. Their defence also left something less than impressive.
The problem is that I still can't get over the way the Cubans played tonight:(.
Being Brazillian doesn't make for good soccer. I wonder if the Ticos are going to fall victim to the same thing.
I was just thinking, if CR plays with the same style they did against Canada saturday Cuba has a fairly reasonable chance. Now wouldn't that make us all feel better.
I still think Cuba well play ultra defensive, win a nil-nil draw and maybe save our Canadian bacon.
"Minority of one"
Jason
07-14-2003, 10:29 PM
I know some of you will now proclaim that we saw the answer tonight and his name is Hume. As impressed as I was, I will not agree with that. He looked good, but IMO no matter how talented a player is, it takes about 10 caps to be comfortable with the concept of senior national team games. This was Hume's 2nd cap. What about the other young offensive stars?
DeGuzman: 6, Canizales: 5, Hutchinson: 4, Friend: 3, Jordan: 0, Budalic 0.
Now I consider Budalic and Jordan to be very much on the fringe of the nats, but the other guys will definitely be part of the player pool for WCQ. Holger has to find a way to increase their appearances before qualifying starts.
Another thought: won't WCQ start when the North American and Scandanavian clubs are in their off-season? The CSA should look into getting these players together for a tour of warm weather locales to get the players fit, learn to play together, get used to the environment, and gain some experience at this level.
Jason
Cheeta
07-14-2003, 10:46 PM
Hume's got a lot of grooming left on Merseyside methinks yet. Did play going forward well though. Could have single handed salvaged a point for Canada, but didn't even get a goal. Would have put him up front right myself but it too late to call Holger on his cell now.
For me deGuzman's our future key. Cheeta like. Cheeta like a lot. I've been less disappointed with our defense than our middle these two matchs and oddly it's in our middle where we are strongest. What defender's back in Europe who we'd wish was here? Nobody. Do you have enough fingers on one hand to count the middle men who're not at the Gold Cup who would otherwise be but for personal circumstance or injury? Maybe. But not by much.
Would Nick be playing? Certainly not in the center mid.
"Minority of one"
Loud Mouth Soup
07-14-2003, 11:15 PM
Funny....I thought Hume was the ONLY saving grace for us tonight in an offensive capacity.
Depending on Stalteri and McKenna for your offence? That won't win us a thing...
Andrew W
07-14-2003, 11:46 PM
How many others taped the game, avoided all scores and internet use, drank [xx(] and then yelled at a tape :(? I'm scaring myself [:0].
Time to blow up the whole senior set-up from top to bottom[?]
Holger [:o)][:o)][:o)]
P.S. I thought the blonde streaks looked cool.
Canuck Oranje
07-15-2003, 08:11 AM
It is nice to see passionate fans. But Speed kills.. And we didn't have any in the defence. Changing the coach will not change that fact. Plain and simple..
McKenna, Stalteri, Hume, Canizales, and Hutchinson and our offence were not the problem. Giving up two relatively easy goals was.
Free kick
07-15-2003, 08:33 AM
quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup
Funny....I thought Hume was the ONLY saving grace for us tonight in an offensive capacity.
Ahem! ahem!!!
in short NO... I saw this post in the other forum and thought twice about posting since Hume has so much promise for Canadian soccer and didn't think that it was fair to slag him. But I didn't feel that he did much with the chances he had nor did deliver quality balls. Lets call it as we see it not as we want to see it.
As I said before, not having Menezes has hurt Canada. He is the single biggest loss for Canada. It was clear during the CR match and it was clear against Cuba again.
His composure and better pace mixed with Devos's solid air power, combined for a great D. Not having that combination is going to be a challenge. If we get that hole plugged somehow, we have a shot. Otherwise, a team that relies on defense will be in trouble.
In addition, Tony had great vision and distributed the ball quite nicely.
Other than him, I guess having real strikers would also help. But for a denensive team like Canada, Menezes is the #1 priority.
Reza
sstackho
07-15-2003, 09:17 AM
Horrible, horrible, horrible result.
And even worse, if you were the Cubans, who would you rather play in the next round? El Salvador or the big and mighty United States who oppress them at every turn? Win or lose, the latter match would be huge for them. Have they ever played each other in soccer before?
So a 0-0 draw is a remote possibility, I fear. :(
---
'Shawn' on the old board...
Gordon
07-15-2003, 09:43 AM
quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje
It is nice to see passionate fans. But Speed kills.. And we didn't have any in the defence. Changing the coach will not change that fact. Plain and simple..
I don't fully agree with this. Yes, speed was an issue, but some of the guys chosen by Holger were chosen because he places too high a premium on experience. Lets face it, Fenwick, who didn't play to horribly, was choosen, despite a string of weak games, and despite a lack of pace because. Dasovic, who is now playing centreback in the A-League, has lost the step he never really had. I would be far more comfortable with him playing Centreback, because he is a very smart player, than in the midfield, where he was, on enough occasions to warrant concern, beaten for a lack of pace. And I am not trying to place the blame on either of these two players, because it was more of a team issue. So why not call Jazic at the start and leave Fenwick as an alternate? There were some faster players available. OK, who knew that Bent would have the blister problem? You can't blame that on the coach. But the selections were his selections.
Plus, our lack of speed was evident against Costa Rica, and Holger did nothing to adress that, even with the perhaps meager resources available to him. Did he think the Cuban coach would not have scouted this? Why not put the faster Hutchinson in for Dasovic? Obviously Nick is very experienced and his knowledge of how to play the game more advanced than Attiba's, but it seemed clear to me that speed was needed and that was an option. Or starting Hume up front and dropping Stalteri back to the midfield? I guess my biggest beef with Holger is that he places way to premium on experience. And too many of our experienced guys just are not good enough to warrant that premium.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
beachesl
07-15-2003, 10:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by Jason
Another thought: won't WCQ start when the North American and Scandanavian clubs are in their off-season? The CSA should look into getting these players together for a tour of warm weather locales to get the players fit, learn to play together, get used to the environment, and gain some experience at this level.
An excellent, and in the scheme of things, an essential idea, Jason.
Under the present CONCANAF WCQ proposal (which FIFA should rule on soon now that UEFA have finally submitted the last proposal), the first WCQ round of 3 teams (I'm starting to think that drawing the sole 2 team group would not now be so lucky) would HAVE to start this early winter (the second round would have to start in the early summer, probably June, so that the final hex could start in early 2005. My bet is that the first date (away) will be in the international date in late February, followed by another away date in late March, a Vancouver/Victoria date 4 days later, and a home game in late April. The draw will be in early December, but we should have the dates before then. We will not have to face the top 11 seeded teams in FIFA besides us, so the series should (!) not be too much problem, even with a B or C team.
You are right, the Scandinavian (and Swiss) leagues will not be running (though they might be playing exhibition games in sunnier climes), and neither will the North American leagues. The German league has a month long break from late December to the end of January, as well, so we might be able to get a few of the guys there. Early January would be an ideal time for such a tour of young potential players from Scandinavia and NA clubs, and they should be enough to get us through the first round.
The second round starting in June will be tougher, as we given our seeding would have to meet at least two quality teams in the Group of 4, so we definitely need our A team for that. By then, we have to know which of the newer guys should be on our A team.
Canuck Oranje
07-15-2003, 10:43 AM
Gordon wrote "Yes, speed was an issue, but some of the guys chosen by Holger were chosen because he places too high a premium on experience."
I am not letting Holger the hook entirely. And I will agree that a premium has been placed on experience. We did talk about the issue on this board after the Costa Rica game. Not being close to the team nor knowing the Cuban team, I have to admit, I thought it would be better to leave the defensive unit together. But now it is clear to me that this unit needs a significant change, if Holger doesn't make changes now, I will stand with the group calling for him to be replaced.
I would prefer live with the possibly fatal mistakes of inexperience and have superior potential in this kind of tournament. In the end our chances probably would not have been that different.
imusic
07-15-2003, 12:23 PM
I'm new to this forum and would just like to add some comments.
I'll get some things out of the way one time. I'm originally from Trinidad but currently live in Vancouver. I have been living in Canada for the past 12 years. The team I support will always be T&T but I also have a keen interest when Canada plays.
Canadian senior men's football suffers from several maladies.....among them is a lack of respect. Lack of respect from the Canadian sporting public at large, the Canadian media, some supporters, and some players. Football or soccer as it is referred to in NA may be played by more youngsters than hockey now according to some statistics, but it still gets less coverage in the media than bowling. That's just a fact. There have been some improvements, most notably extended EPL matches on Sportsnet, Champion's League football on TSN and the advent of Fox Sports World Canada which televises a variety of football from all around the world.
The fact remains Ladies football is arguably a bigger draw and gets more national media publicity than men's football. The quality of the product that is ladies football is considerably inferior in my opinion but it doesn't matter. The Ladies teams are seen to be competitive, they win more often than they lose, and they tap into a demographic which has been traditionally ignored by the electronic media.
The Canadian men's team from my view plays "destructive football". By this I mean they tend to play in a defensive formation, hoping to catch the opposition on the break and score via a set piece. They try to disrupt the other teams play, "sneak" a goal and hold on behind some terrific goalkeeping. Not much different from the Canadian hockey teams I have observed in the past where the dump and chase tactic prevailed and depended on a "hot" goalie to keep them in the game. Now the strength, culture and tradition of football in Canada can in no way be compared to hockey so this tactic will not work in the long term. When Canada played T&T back in 2000 in WC qualifying in Edmonton, Canada dominated for long periods but could not score. You just don't go from playing a certain style and then expect to score when circumstances dictate you need to go on the offensive arise.
Steve Sampson, the Costa Rican coach was accused of "sour grapes" for saying pretty much the same thing but I believe he has a point. Those tactics can work for Canada SOMETIMES. On the odd occasion, it can work for the duration of a tournament as the victory in the Gold Cup showed, but that will be more the anamoly than the norm. If Canada wants to be a consistent force in football, and I'm talking just at the CONCACAF senior level now, they have to change their playing philosophy. To me, the philosophy reeks of a lack of self belief.
In the coaches defence, he can only play what he has available. Canada's top players for the most part DO NOT PLAY REGULARLY FOR CANADA. Radzinski, Jazic, De Rosario, etc. do not play often enough for the National team for what ever reason. In the case of Jazic..he has never played for the Senior Men's Team which is too bad because he would make a great difference, as would Radzinski. There are youngsters like De Guzman, Hutchinson, Canizales, Cam Wilson (the under 17 striker) who are all really good players so it's not like Canada does not have the talent. But whenever you watch Canada play, it's the same thing.....bunker mentality for the most part hoping to sneak a goal and hold on. From the time Cuba scored first, I knew Canada would be in problems because they cannot or have extreme difficulty coming from behind.
In this Gold Cup, Canada did not pick any strikers so I was not surprised that they struggled to score goals. I have seen comments by many on this forum saying "but it was Cuba!!!" like if Canada has some sort of divine right to trounce Cuba when they play them. If those same people were paying attention, Cuba has embarked on a more aggressive football program which has reaped results recently. Similarly Martinique and Haiti. There are no "easy" matches in CONCACAF anymore. Costa Rica found that out up to 3 days ago. Their supporters were probably saying "but it was Canada!!" At the end of the day, Canada was very lucky to win that game and were unlucky to lose against Cuba but that's the way the game goes. I agree with Sampson. In the long run, if Canada continues to play the way they do and continue to not have their best players available, look for more negative than positive results.
For the supporters, I would say continue to support your team but do so realistically, i.e. understand the shortcomings of the team and view it from that context. When I saw the selection for the Gold Cup I was expecting Canada not to make it through the first round. That they subsequently defeated Costa Rica was definitely a shock to me. I felt they were very lucky but hey...this seems to be Canada's tournament. The result against Cuba to me was a better indication of where THIS team is right now. At the end of the day, do not count Canada out just yet. It is not inconceivable that Cuba can beat or hold Costa Rica to a draw. Neither is it inconceivable that Costa Rica can beat Cuba by 4 clear goals. I believe Costa Rica and USA are the class of CONCACAF right now. Keep the faith Canada football fans. The team may yet make it to the next round.
kclee
07-15-2003, 12:52 PM
You maek some excellent observations. When we put all defensive minded players on the pitch it is no wonder we can't score. The fact is if we had our 'first' choice players we could keep the ball on the ground and pressure any defence, especially in our Region. My fear is we may never see our best players all at the same time. Radzinski, DeRosario, DeGuzman, Stalteri, Brennan, Aguiar, Bent, Jazic, DeVos, Menezes, Hirshfeld. That is one hell of a starting 11. I have followed the national team for a long time. In the past we had all our players because none were good enough to go anywhere else. They could play together often and master our bunker, long-ball style. I much prefer the quality of the players available now. I am very confident that we can beat any team in our Region if we can just get them together.
beachesl
07-15-2003, 12:55 PM
Thanks, imusic, for the thoughtful piece, and putting everything into a perspective.
Gordon
07-15-2003, 02:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by Free kick
Ahem! ahem!!!
in short NO... I saw this post in the other forum and thought twice about posting since Hume has so much promise for Canadian soccer and didn't think that it was fair to slag him. But I didn't feel that he did much with the chances he had nor did deliver quality balls. Lets call it as we see it not as we want to see it.
He attacked space with speed and generated offensive soccer. He also showed some nice dribbling moves and was not afraid to attack the defender. Yes, he made a few errant crosses, and a some of "inexperience" decisions in the attack. But I thought that both he and Miguel/Maycoll showed more ability to play a ground based offence than all but Stalteri.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
matthew
07-15-2003, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the comments, kclee and imusic. Welcome.
I agree that the game was lost on the field moreso than in the planning in the locker room, but I also agree with imusic - when I saw this roster I didn't think we'd survive the first round. I was hoping we would, but Cuba plays a style that's tough to battle. Costa Rica has more skill, but play slower, Cuba plays at a high tempo with lots of speed and directly, but without the aerial game. Given our backline options it didn't seem like we were in good shape to deal with that.
I thought Hume played pretty well, was certainly a bright spot and much, much better than he was against Libya. That being said, I don't see how he can win a spot in the midfield (I don't rate him better than Bent, Nsaliwa, DeGuzman, Imhof, Stalteri or Brennan). Maybe up front, but I would really like to see Radzinski and DeRosario back together again.
I think kclee's best 11 is indeed a strong team and capable of good play and yet we all know we'll never see it.
I'm just discouraged and tired.
cheers,
matthew
The car is on fire and there is no driver at the wheel and the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. A dark wind blows. The government is corrupt and we are all so many drunks with the radio on and the curtains drawn. We’re trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death.
MikeD
07-15-2003, 08:07 PM
I've just finished the long drive home after attending Canada's matches down in Foxborough. As someone who attended both matches live, here are my two cents on some of the points raised in this thread (I'm sure others who attended live will have some things to add as well):
First, I think it's worth mentioning that the Cubans are clearly a lot better than any of us were giving them credit for before this match. They've improved dramatically since we played them in 1999 and 2000. For that they deserve a lot of credit and we all deserve a kick in our complacent butts for underestimating them (I include myself in this.)
In addition, it may not have been obvious to those of you watching on television that our team was completely physically wasted from having played only two days earlier in conditions that I can only describe as brutally hot. In the second half, many of our guys could barely run. As a result, we lost many foot races that we normally wouldn't have lost and we had little off the ball movement.
This lack of off the ball movement may not have been obvious on TV, where the camera usually focuses on the ball carrier and area immediately around him. Our guys were so tired, especially in the second half, that they just weren't doing the necessary running to create space and good passing opportunities on the ground. It also made it easy for the defence to close down the ball carrier, which is why we so often had no choice but to boot the ball up field.
However, my point here isn't to make excuses for our bad play. My point is that despite all these factors stacked against us we still outplayed the much-improved Cubans. The Cubans only really had three good chances in the whole match: two came off defensive mistakes (one by Fenwick and one by Hastings) and led to their two goals (fatigue was clearly a factor in Fenwick's mistake and may have been a factor in Hastings') and the third (late in the second half) never should have happened because the play was offside but wasn't called. We, on the other hand, had tons of good chances. Lack of finishing was the difference, but knew we that lack of finishing was going to be our problem with Radzinski and DeRosario out.
I'm not saying that we deserved to win - you obviously don't deserve to win when you don't finish your chances and the opponent does. What I'm saying is that, even though we played a very brutal, absolutely crap-@ssed, match (by our own standards) we still looked like the better side. Therefore, there's no reason to declare that the world is ending. We're still an excellent team by CONCACAF standards with a very good chance of qualifying for the World Cup. The fact that could have had such a bad match and still outplayed our opponent shows how much we outclassed them. If we'd been on our game, like we were against Costa Rica (or hadn't played 2 days earlier in brutual heat, or hadn't been missing five starters) we'd have smoked those Cubans and most other teams in CONCACAF.
It hurts to lose like that, but the ball is round, the match is 90 minutes and things like this happen sometimes. Remember Senegal v France in the 2002 World Cup? Or Croatia over Germany in the '98 World Cup? Or the USA over Argentina in the '95 Copa America? Upsets happen, that's why they play the game! The key is not to lose sight of the fact that, as disappointing as it is, it's just one game, we're still better than them and we'll beat them next time (especially when you consider that we're only going to get better as our young guns like Pozniak, Hume, Canizalez, DeGuzman and Nsaliwa get better and better.)
PS: My one really big criticism is of Holger's decision not to use his subs earlier. It was obvious to us Voyageurs in the stands that the players were running out of gas and we began calling for subs way before Holger finally brought off Hastings and Nash in the second half.
Mike D
Gian-Luca
07-15-2003, 08:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by MikeD
I've just finished the long drive home after attending Canada's matches down in Foxborough. As someone who attended both matches live, here are my two cents on some of the points raised in this thread (I'm sure others who attended live will have some things to add as well):
First, I think it's worth mentioning that the Cubans are clearly a lot better than any of us were giving them credit for before this match. They've improved dramatically since we played them in 1999 and 2000. For that they deserve a lot of credit and we all deserve a kick in our complacent butts for underestimating them (I include myself in this.)
In addition, it may not have been obvious to those of you watching on television that our team was completely physically wasted from having played only two days earlier in conditions that I can only describe as brutally hot. In the second half, many of our guys could barely run. As a result, we lost many foot races that we normally wouldn't have lost and we had little off the ball movement.
This lack of off the ball movement may not have been obvious on TV, where the camera usually focuses on the ball carrier and area immediately around him. Our guys were so tired, especially in the second half, that they just weren't doing the necessary running to create space and good passing opportunities on the ground. It also made it easy for the defence to close down the ball carrier, which is why we so often had no choice but to boot the ball up field.
However, my point here isn't to make excuses for our bad play. My point is that despite all these factors stacked against us we still outplayed the much-improved Cubans. The Cubans only really had three good chances in the whole match: two came off defensive mistakes (one by Fenwick and one by Hastings) and led to their two goals (fatigue was clearly a factor in Fenwick's mistake and may have been a factor in Hastings') and the third (late in the second half) never should have happened because the play was offside but wasn't called. We, on the other hand, had tons of good chances. Lack of finishing was the difference, but knew we that lack of finishing was going to be our problem with Radzinski and DeRosario out.
I'm not saying that we deserved to win - you obviously don't deserve to win when you don't finish your chances and the opponent does. What I'm saying is that, even though we played a very brutal, absolutely crap-@ssed, match (by our own standards) we still looked like the better side. Therefore, there's no reason to declare that the world is ending. We're still an excellent team by CONCACAF standards with a very good chance of qualifying for the World Cup. The fact that could have had such a bad match and still outplayed our opponent shows how much we outclassed them. If we'd been on our game, like we were against Costa Rica (or hadn't played 2 days earlier in brutual heat, or hadn't been missing five starters) we'd have smoked those Cubans and most other teams in CONCACAF.
It hurts to lose like that, but the ball is round, the match is 90 minutes and things like this happen sometimes. Remember Senegal v France in the 2002 World Cup? Or Croatia over Germany in the '98 World Cup? Or the USA over Argentina in the '95 Copa America? Upsets happen, that's why they play the game! The key is not to lose sight of the fact that, as disappointing as it is, it's just one game, we're still better than them and we'll beat them next time (especially when you consider that we're only going to get better as our young guns like Pozniak, Hume, Canizalez, DeGuzman and Nsaliwa get better and better.)
PS: My one really big criticism is of Holger's decision not to use his subs earlier. It was obvious to us Voyageurs in the stands that the players were running out of gas and we began calling for subs way before Holger finally brought off Hastings and Nash in the second half.
Mike D
And so say all of us!!! :)
I don't have much more to add to what you've said, though I do think perhaps mental sharpness was a bigger factor that physicaly tiredness. The bottom line is that if Canada plays up to their capabilities they can beat a team like Costa Rica (not too many people would have said that before the tourney). If the team does not play up to their capability (which, for various reasons they did not against Cuba), they can lose to teams like Cuba which they are clearly better than. That's been the reality for a while, & I can't say that I am any more pessimistic that we will qualify for the 2006 World Cup because of Monday's agonizingly disappointing match. The one thing perhaps that is most worrying (and which most are losing sight of) is that Cuba has improved quite a bit since we played them in 2000, and I hate hearing about other Concacaf teams improving. But if we play our best (even without our best) we should still be beating them, because (despite our crappy performance) I don't for one minute believe they have a better team they we do.
Glad to hear you made it back home safely as well. We both had a trying day on Monday, what with my muffler problem which made me spend 4 hours at a Foxboro auto shop (great way to spend a holiday - before watching Canada lose to frickin Cuba), while you simply must tell the people here the story of how you got to the Stadium Monday, they could do with a smile. :D
Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977)
Cheeta
07-15-2003, 08:35 PM
You guys beat me to the punch.
Good post, Mike D. Good on you to cheer our lads. You shame us all at home.
Was going to start a post "Sober 2nd Look" but'll I'll just throw it in on this thread as it speaks pretty clearly to your own post.
How did we not win that game? How? I counted by my own cynical yardstick 13 1/2 good, threatening scoring opportunities yet we still didn't score. We have never, ever had 13 1/2 good scoring opportunities in two matchs, little less one. On another day, when Saturn wasn't passing through Luna with Mars in tandim accendency with Io, like at say after 9 o'clock PM, we'd have killed this Cuban side. How did McKenna not score?! How?
With less beer and a more judgmental eye what I took for lethargic, disinterested, lazy play is now odvessly fatigue. The lads were spent from monday. Heads down to the man they did their best to get the legs moving where the heart wanted them to go but the body was weak.
I am sorry. I apoligise. I owe you all a nights worth of lagers.
I have found much encouragement from mondays game. Some surprising, (Hume is going to remember Boston, learn at Tranmere, and serve up a healthy plate of revenge oh so soon enough), and some not (I've been on this board I guess a year and a half now and been Kevin McKenna's biggest, loudest supporter. He is an honour to all Canadian's and the McKenna family. I well count it a great day when I get the chance to shake his hand.) If Paul "Diesel" Stalteri for all his little tantrums isn't our footballer of the year we are fools.
I hope still that we go through to the quarters. These lads have hope still.
More to come. Gotta pick up the little one.
P.S. I'm not letting this Fenwick bit go!
"Minority of one"
Gian-Luca
07-15-2003, 08:56 PM
Had a chance to meet McKenna's parents. They stayed at the same hotel I did. Very nice people. Flew all the way from Calgary, via Seattle. Also met Richard Hastings girlfriend & her parents & Stalteri's wife & his brother. Nice people. all of them.
Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977)
Gordon
07-15-2003, 09:09 PM
Fair comment from G-L and MikeD, but it doesn't change any of my criticisms. In fact, it enhances my concerns about Holger. Truthfully, based on what you have seen of Fenwick over the past year, do any of you believe that a tired Paul Fenwick is better than Nevio Pizzolitto? This only emphasizes my concerns about the qualities Holger seems to value in his players. He didn't make any adjustments to his tired lineup. No Xuasa for Nash, say, or Hutchinson for Dasovic or Pizzolitto for Fenwick. All three of which would have been a rational response to tiredness. Instead, he made only one change, and it was a change foisted upon him by injury.
As for Cuba, well, we made them look better than they are, perhaps due to fatigue, but they were smart enough to recognize that speed was our liaibility and it doesn't look like Holger did. He can say until he is blue n the face that he saw the threat Cuba posed, but he did not make any rational moves to counter the threat.
I don't think I am doing a chicken little here (mostly) boys (nor am I suggesting anyone is accusing me of this). I hope this is a one off affair. But there are some serious questions to be asked of the Technical Director. And they need to be addressed before WCQ starts.
The opinions expressed above are just that.
Gian-Luca
07-15-2003, 09:30 PM
Gordon, I agree with your criticisms re: the non-usage of Pizzolitto. If you go to the old board, you will see that in a new post there I have questioned the lack of new starters for the Cuba match (by comparison the US changed 4 starters & help to stay fresh, though they had an evening stroll against El Salvador as well, rather than our afternoon slugfest). I am not suggesting that people here can't criticize or complain - heck, I did so at the stadium. Any time we lose to a team that we are better than criticism is warranted, I don't think the players or coach would disagree with that principle. I have concerns with what I view as a bit of stubborness on Holger's behalf - he doesn't like to make changes, and is sometimes to slow to make them - but he did get it right against Costa Rica. Sometimes he gets it right & sometimes he gets it wrong. He calls himself an average coach & who am I to argue that?
Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977)
Cheeta
07-15-2003, 10:36 PM
I think Cuba is a very well coached and oraganised squad. But one Canadian goal and that little sliver of panic they were showing as the lads continued to pressure would have burst through with enthusiasm. My biggest fear and hope is that they've totaly spent their bullet and Costa Rica well slaughter them. They certainly looked dead on their feet as the game neared it's completion.
This loss occured in circumstances that hopefully well never,ever be repeated.
Holger dose have to give more weight to the qualities of his sub's bench though. Can you imagine how Xausa felt watching Stalteri drag his legs all over the pitch later in the match. Bless Paul, he still managed a couple of really great opportunities later in the contest which normaly I don't dought he'd have finished, but for Xausa to watch it all unfold without the coach's confidense must be frustrating to the maximum.
I was a little hard on MC2 yesterday. I still feel he was lost and well never understand a junior player not running their guts out on every play but he did show a few bright spots and an offensive (at least) alertness which should be complimented. Years away still but well worth the effort in grooming. In his defense, it's to the senior fellows on the pitch to show the initiative and direction. Both of which were not forthcoming to the young man.
"Minority of one"
Mimglow
07-16-2003, 12:07 AM
Hi everyone...
Just got in from Boston a few hours ago, been going through everything on the board I've missed in 5 days...boy, you've been writing like crazy!
I'm too tired to give my thoughts for right now, but I must say that I'm a little disappointed in the reactionary nature of the posts following the Cuba match. The boys tried hard, played hard, Holger made some subs, and we came up short. How about a little support...
Oh well, maybe I'm a little cranky from my 8 hour drive and am letting it all out on the nay-sayers, but I was there and saw it all unfold. We should not have lost that match...
Not to mention that I was almost assaulted by a group of Americans who were angry at Canada for not joining the war in Iraq. More on this tomorrow...
zzzzzz
Mimglow, Ottawa
_________________________
You are the witness of change
And to counteract
We gotta take the power back
Rage Against The Machine
Mimglow
07-16-2003, 12:07 AM
Hi everyone...
Just got in from Boston a few hours ago, been going through everything on the board I've missed in 5 days...boy, you've been writing like crazy!
I'm too tired to give my thoughts for right now, but I must say that I'm a little disappointed in the reactionary nature of the posts following the Cuba match. The boys tried hard, played hard, Holger made some subs, and we came up short. How about a little support...
Oh well, maybe I'm a little cranky from my 8 hour drive and am letting it all out on the nay-sayers, but I was there and saw it all unfold. We should not have lost that match...
Not to mention that I was almost assaulted by a group of Americans who were angry at Canada for not joining the war in Iraq. More on this tomorrow...
zzzzzz
Mimglow, Ottawa
_________________________
You are the witness of change
And to counteract
We gotta take the power back
Rage Against The Machine
Gian-Luca
07-16-2003, 12:32 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mimglow
Hi everyone...
I'm too tired to give my thoughts for right now, but I must say that I'm a little disappointed in the reactionary nature of the posts following the Cuba match.
Actually I can't say I am surprised about that. After we lose a match we had no business losing, most of the comments are understandable, if somewhat predictable (but then most probably find that my comments are as well.)
Glad to hear you made it back safe & sound as well.
Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977)
Gian-Luca
07-16-2003, 12:32 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mimglow
Hi everyone...
I'm too tired to give my thoughts for right now, but I must say that I'm a little disappointed in the reactionary nature of the posts following the Cuba match.
Actually I can't say I am surprised about that. After we lose a match we had no business losing, most of the comments are understandable, if somewhat predictable (but then most probably find that my comments are as well.)
Glad to hear you made it back safe & sound as well.
Even the wolf can learn. Even the sheep can turn. Even the frog can become at last the prince. - Peter Hammill, Over (1977)
matthew
07-16-2003, 01:44 AM
My first reaction to a loss is always severe and irational. I support the team always, but I've been moping around to the point that my boss called me into her office and asked if I had a personal problem that needed dealing with. I need to learn to take this less seriously.
My reaction to this team, long term, is that we are losing ground on our opponents and the gap is actually widening. I don't understand the player selections, I don't like the fact that we've been missing one or two key players for every game since the Confed Cup (and I'm not even counting the exiles). I don't think we're going to go very far in World Cup qualifying and I do believe we have the talent to qualify.
Those two thoughts don't mix very comfortably in my head. Maybe it's misguided anger, but when I see a team I think has the talent and the ability to beat anyone and yet is constantly finding excuses as to why things never seem to work out, I tend to blame the manager. That doesn't mean I know everything. It doesn't mean I could do a better job. It doesn't even mean I don't like Holger (the man has a place in my heart forever, after putting his arm around me and patting me on the head the first time I met him in Edmonton after losing to Iran). It does mean that I see us heading for the rocks in World Cup qualifying and I don't really mean to scream at the captain, but I'm ****ting myself and a lot of the passengers are all talking about the pretty view.
In the immediate reaction to the Cuba loss is that this is our confed championship. I take it seriously. I don't care that it's mickey mouse with invited teams and 2,000 people in a 70,000 seat stadium and the TV sucks and the US host it all the time, I take it as seriously as I think other people in the world take the Euro Championships of the Copa America. As such, this is the biggest disaster in a long time. I know a lot of people see this as something on the path to WCQ, but for me this is big in and of itself.
Yeah I knew Cuba would be tough. I wasn't sure we'd beat them. They are much improved and hey congrats to them. That being said, I can't take satisfaction from the fact that a crumbling Communist dictatorship is able to drastically improve their game and their team since 1996 and we've not improved at all. A lot of people say the quality of our play is much better than the Lenarduzzi era and I tend to agree, but the results aren't anywhere near as effective esp in WCQ and while I'm glad the region is getting better. We might just be where we belong in the FIFA rankings. While everyone improves are we just being left behind?
As for the game, I'm going to argue with those that were there and they'll disagree and that's fine. I don't even know if I feel like debating it, since it's pretty much a matter of interpretation, but that game was lost for us in the first 20 minutes. We came out flat, we gave Cuba time to impose themselves on the game and gain confidence. After that we came at them in droves and attacked relentlessly - often with purpose and a lot of skill. So frankly the idea that we were too tired to deal with Cuba doesn't wash with me. I don't see how guys like Dasovic and Imhof can get forward in the last minutes, but don't have the gas to close down the midfield in the 15th minute.
I know we looked tired, I just think we looked complacent and over-confident. No doubt we were tired, but we were able to overcome that with a lot of spirit (that's the biggest positive I got from the Gold Cup so far - we have our fighting spirit back), but if we had that same spirit, determination and fear in the first half we wouldn't have gotten into the mess we were in, in the first place.
That's my two bits. Take it for what it is: the rantings of a crap soccer player who loves this team more than is healthy for him.
Come on Cuba!
cheers,
matthew
The car is on fire and there is no driver at the wheel and the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. A dark wind blows. The government is corrupt and we are all so many drunks with the radio on and the curtains drawn. We’re trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death.
matthew
07-16-2003, 01:44 AM
My first reaction to a loss is always severe and irational. I support the team always, but I've been moping around to the point that my boss called me into her office and asked if I had a personal problem that needed dealing with. I need to learn to take this less seriously.
My reaction to this team, long term, is that we are losing ground on our opponents and the gap is actually widening. I don't understand the player selections, I don't like the fact that we've been missing one or two key players for every game since the Confed Cup (and I'm not even counting the exiles). I don't think we're going to go very far in World Cup qualifying and I do believe we have the talent to qualify.
Those two thoughts don't mix very comfortably in my head. Maybe it's misguided anger, but when I see a team I think has the talent and the ability to beat anyone and yet is constantly finding excuses as to why things never seem to work out, I tend to blame the manager. That doesn't mean I know everything. It doesn't mean I could do a better job. It doesn't even mean I don't like Holger (the man has a place in my heart forever, after putting his arm around me and patting me on the head the first time I met him in Edmonton after losing to Iran). It does mean that I see us heading for the rocks in World Cup qualifying and I don't really mean to scream at the captain, but I'm ****ting myself and a lot of the passengers are all talking about the pretty view.
In the immediate reaction to the Cuba loss is that this is our confed championship. I take it seriously. I don't care that it's mickey mouse with invited teams and 2,000 people in a 70,000 seat stadium and the TV sucks and the US host it all the time, I take it as seriously as I think other people in the world take the Euro Championships of the Copa America. As such, this is the biggest disaster in a long time. I know a lot of people see this as something on the path to WCQ, but for me this is big in and of itself.
Yeah I knew Cuba would be tough. I wasn't sure we'd beat them. They are much improved and hey congrats to them. That being said, I can't take satisfaction from the fact that a crumbling Communist dictatorship is able to drastically improve their game and their team since 1996 and we've not improved at all. A lot of people say the quality of our play is much better than the Lenarduzzi era and I tend to agree, but the results aren't anywhere near as effective esp in WCQ and while I'm glad the region is getting better. We might just be where we belong in the FIFA rankings. While everyone improves are we just being left behind?
As for the game, I'm going to argue with those that were there and they'll disagree and that's fine. I don't even know if I feel like debating it, since it's pretty much a matter of interpretation, but that game was lost for us in the first 20 minutes. We came out flat, we gave Cuba time to impose themselves on the game and gain confidence. After that we came at them in droves and attacked relentlessly - often with purpose and a lot of skill. So frankly the idea that we were too tired to deal with Cuba doesn't wash with me. I don't see how guys like Dasovic and Imhof can get forward in the last minutes, but don't have the gas to close down the midfield in the 15th minute.
I know we looked tired, I just think we looked complacent and over-confident. No doubt we were tired, but we were able to overcome that with a lot of spirit (that's the biggest positive I got from the Gold Cup so far - we have our fighting spirit back), but if we had that same spirit, determination and fear in the first half we wouldn't have gotten into the mess we were in, in the first place.
That's my two bits. Take it for what it is: the rantings of a crap soccer player who loves this team more than is healthy for him.
Come on Cuba!
cheers,
matthew
The car is on fire and there is no driver at the wheel and the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides. A dark wind blows. The government is corrupt and we are all so many drunks with the radio on and the curtains drawn. We’re trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death.
Canuck Oranje
07-16-2003, 08:40 AM
I will still say that the underlying trends in Canadian soccer are still very much positive. The results of this tournament were disappointing. A lot of the players that were missing were missing because their clubs see them as important. That wasn't always the case in Canadian soccer.
I am not about to say that soccer is a mess in this country. In fact, as a sport, it is stronger than it ever has been. That comes from someone who has been involved in the sport since the early 70s. And we have had far worse coaches than Holger (not naming names). And I don't know how many of our '86 World Cup team would have even been selected for this Gold cup (at their 86 form).
The National team may be a different story.. But the long term trends will ultimately lift the team as it did Women's soccer in this country. The mountain is just higher on the men's side of things. We will eventually get there.
The other thread about replacing Holger, asks the important question, "Who do you replace him with?" I don't have an answer to that question. Change for change sake is not productive. The coaches that would have a significant impact on the National team are probably not affordable.
dbailey62
07-16-2003, 01:55 PM
Hey Mimglow,
What's the story on you being assaulted by a bunch of war mongers?
db
Mimglow
07-16-2003, 01:58 PM
Check this thread out...it's all in there...let me know if you have any questions! :)
http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=575
Mimglow, Ottawa
_________________________
You are the witness of change
And to counteract
We gotta take the power back
Rage Against The Machine
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